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RJNorton · 05-09-2013, 04:22 AM

(05-08-2013 07:57 PM)John Stanton Wrote: If she found out on Friday, then her request to "pray for my intentions", was to stop the murder.

IMO, Booth made 3 (4 if Bill Richter's theory is correct) trips to the boardinghouse on Friday. IMO Booth told Mary the plan had changed during these visits. If we are to believe Weichmann, not only did she request for him "to pray for my intentions," but her other behavior is indicative of her worry that something big was about to happen. I agree with Kate Larson that Booth called about 9 P.M., and after that visit Mary got very nervous. Weichmann writes that on the morning of the 15th Anna Surratt said that the 9 P.M. visitor was indeed Booth. Thus, IMO, Booth stopped at the boardinghouse to check with Mary right before he rode to Ford's.

All I can say is this just makes sense to me. Of these people - whom did Booth feel closest to?: John Lloyd, Samuel Mudd, or Mary Surratt. I think he felt closest to Mary. He came right out and told Lloyd what he had done. He may have told Mudd, too, although that's just a guess. We're supposed to believe he gave his real name to Cobb but not to Mudd? Doesn't make sense to me. Mary was the one he was closest to, so I am of the opinion he told Mary what he was about to do at Ford's.

When Smoot came on Wednesday I think she thought the kidnapping was still the plan; but by Friday I think she knew what was about to go down.

I think if she REALLY wanted to stop the murder she could have. She had enough time after 9 P.M. to alert authorities that they needed to rush to Ford's Theatre and guard the president. She chose not to take advantage of this small window. Did she also know that Powell was assigned to attack William Seward? I do not know.

MaddieM · 05-09-2013, 05:14 AM

(05-09-2013 04:22 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(05-08-2013 07:57 PM)John Stanton Wrote: If she found out on Friday, then her request to "pray for my intentions", was to stop the murder.

IMO, Booth made 3 (4 if Bill Richter's theory is correct) trips to the boardinghouse on Friday. IMO Booth told Mary the plan had changed during these visits. If we are to believe Weichmann, not only did she request for him "to pray for my intentions," but her other behavior is indicative of her worry that something big was about to happen. I agree with Kate Larson that Booth called about 9 P.M., and after that visit Mary got very nervous. Weichmann writes that on the morning of the 15th Anna Surratt said that the 9 P.M. visitor was indeed Booth. Thus, IMO, Booth stopped at the boardinghouse to check with Mary right before he rode to Ford's.

All I can say is this just makes sense to me. Of these people - whom did Booth feel closest to?: John Lloyd, Samuel Mudd, or Mary Surratt. I think he felt closest to Mary. He came right out and told Lloyd what he had done. He may have told Mudd, too, although that's just a guess. We're supposed to believe he gave his real name to Cobb but not to Mudd? Doesn't make sense to me. Mary was the one he was closest to, so I am of the opinion he told Mary what he was about to do at Ford's.

When Smoot came on Wednesday I think she thought the kidnapping was still the plan; but by Friday I think she knew what was about to go down.

I think if she REALLY wanted to stop the murder she could have. She had enough time after 9 P.M. to alert authorities that they needed to rush to Ford's Theatre and guard the president. She chose not to take advantage of this small window. Did she also know that Powell was assigned to attack William Seward? I do not know.

If Booth was the egotist he seems to have been, and if as you say, he felt closest to her, then he might have shared more with her than she ever let on. It's the way of egotists to brag about their plans and actions.

BettyO · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 06:39 AM by BettyO.)

Quote:I think if she REALLY wanted to stop the murder she could have. She had enough time after 9 P.M. to alert authorities that they needed to rush to Ford's Theatre and guard the president. She chose not to take advantage of this small window. Did she also know that Powell was assigned to attack William Seward? I do not know.

If Mrs. Surratt did have time to avert the murder (at least an hour's window), like Atzerodt, she chose not to heed her better inclinations and avoided conflict by not "singing" to the authorities. Hence, this makes her an accessory. Did she know what Powell was up to? I doubt it. She may have known what Booth attempted to do, but I doubt she knew what the entire "gang" was going to attempt. Booth may have told her, but I doubt that as well. It was Herold who blurted out to Lloyd that they had "assassinated the President and Secretary of State."

J. Beckert · 05-09-2013, 06:47 AM

That makes a lot of sense, Roger, especially throwing Cobb and Lloyd into the equation. I can't see him not telling Mudd.

BettyO · 05-09-2013, 06:51 AM

Mudd KNEW Booth - in lieu of their close proximity (and I know I'll never be let into the Mudd House again for voicing this! HA!!) as both were working with the Confederate underground, I would assume that JWB did tell Mudd what had transpired. Just as he told Cox - he more or less felt that Mudd was someone he could trust.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2013 07:23 AM by Gene C.)

What do you think was more damaging for Mrs.Surratt?
1. Her trip to Surrattsville the day of the assassination
2. Louis Powell showing up on her doorstep late at night
3. Her son John's involvement in the whole mess, and the feds being unable to catch him before the trial was over.
(did Mary take the fall for her son?)
4. Something else

BettyO · 05-09-2013, 07:31 AM

Gene -

I think all three bore very heavily against her -

Her trip to Surrattsville the day of the assassination was damning in that it was extremely suspicious - especially when backed up by testimony given by Weichmann. Lew Powell appearing on her doorstep and her denial of knowing him when she was bound to know his voice, was also a black spot on her character. Son John's involvement and her denial that she knew his whereabouts was also a factor in that she was not going to divulge to the authorities that she knew her son's location at the time (even if she did know where he was!) nor was she going to let on that she knew he was involved in anything.

Mrs. Surratt's statement to Weichmann shortly after the assassination that she "knew the house was going to be searched" was also a factor. WHY would her house be searched if it was not under suspicion?

RJNorton · 05-09-2013, 07:40 AM

I think her Tuesday, April 11, trip is also suspicious. That day, according to Lloyd, Mary told him the "shooting irons" would be needed soon.

That's also the day Spangler sold Booth's buggy (although I think Booth asked him on Monday). Booth told Spangler he would be leaving Washington soon.

I think both Mary's trip and Spangler's buggy sale came earlier in the day than Lincoln's speech.

Mary certainly knew something was about to happen...

Jim Garrett · 05-09-2013, 07:17 PM

(05-09-2013 07:20 AM)Gene C Wrote: What do you think was more damaging for Mrs.Surratt?
1. Her trip to Surrattsville the day of the assassination
2. Louis Powell showing up on her doorstep late at night
3. Her son John's involvement in the whole mess, and the feds being unable to catch him before the trial was over.
(did Mary take the fall for her son?)
4. Something else

I think the most damaging part was that she was guity as hell Sleepy

John Stanton · 05-09-2013, 10:00 PM

It's easy for us to say what they should have done or said, we have had years to develop our opinion. Yet, we expect those poor souls to think clearly and patriotically, and stop this crime. However, everyone involved expected the assassination to change everything and save the Confederacy. As for Mary, as a Catholic, as a Mother, as a woman, and a citizen, she didn't want a murder. If she learned there would be a murder -that night - by 10 PM she was a "limp rag" -she couldn't think of her own name. Later, her weak condition, her pleas for Help ("I don't want to fall") are an indication that she wishes she had done something -to stop the crime. Because she didn't do "something" she became Guilty, by association. But, she had no "part" in the plan to murder.

John E. · 05-10-2013, 11:54 PM

(05-09-2013 10:00 PM)John Stanton Wrote: As for Mary, as a Catholic, as a Mother, as a woman, and a citizen, she didn't want a murder. If she learned there would be a murder -that night - by 10 PM she was a "limp rag" -she couldn't think of her own name.

I don't agree with you John. She may have been nervous that night but she was as cool as could be in the face of pretty intense questioning. She knew what she got in to. She asked Weichmann to pray for her intentions, did Booth's bidding that day and hoped for the best.

She regretted getting caught and lied to avoid death. Say what you will about John's cowardice but he was cunning enough to cover his tracks and/or get out of town. I don't believe anything he could have said or done would have saved his mother's life .

Do we know of anything John did that would have gotten him hanged? As far as evidence is concerned, he did about as much as O'Laughlen and Arnold.

Did he hide weapons?
Did he help Booth escape?
Was he assigned to kill anyone?
No one can say.

He was used to working in the shadows and he kept it that way.

RJNorton · 05-11-2013, 04:31 AM

(05-10-2013 11:54 PM)John E. Wrote: Do we know of anything John did that would have gotten him hanged? As far as evidence is concerned, he did about as much as O'Laughlen and Arnold.

Did he hide weapons?
Did he help Booth escape?
Was he assigned to kill anyone?
No one can say.

He was used to working in the shadows and he kept it that way.

John, you bring up some interesting points. I have been meaning to ask this question for some time now, and I think I will ask it here. We sometimes see John Surratt being referred to as "second in command" after Booth. Why is this? If John were truly "second in command," wouldn't he have been in Washington on April 14th? (assuming the Elmira evidence is correct) Was there truly a "second in command" after Booth?

L Verge · 05-11-2013, 01:46 PM

To me, the second in command terminology refers to the kidnap plot - which I still think was sanctioned by the Confederacy until around the first of April. When the kidnapping didn't happen, I think Surratt was assigned to clean-up detail under Gen. E.G. Lee in anticipation of the fall of Richmond. Technically, he was back to what he had been doing for almost three years - following orders from the Confederate espionage system. He was no longer assigned to Booth.

Jim Garrett · 05-12-2013, 06:07 AM

(05-11-2013 01:46 PM)L Verge Wrote: To me, the second in command terminology refers to the kidnap plot - which I still think was sanctioned by the Confederacy until around the first of April. When the kidnapping didn't happen, I think Surratt was assigned to clean-up detail under Gen. E.G. Lee in anticipation of the fall of Richmond. Technically, he was back to what he had been doing for almost three years - following orders from the Confederate espionage system. He was no longer assigned to Booth.

Great points Laurie. He was pretty far afield during the second week of April. With the Confederacy falling apart so quick at the end of March, beginning of April, John may have been sent up north to run errands for the post collapse government. While Jefferson Davis had confidence in R.E.Lee to pull off the impossible, he also had to reinforce his contingency plans.

L Verge · 05-12-2013, 08:34 AM

And one contingency plan was to blow up the White House. Thomas Harney was much more useful in this endeavor as were Mosby's men as escorts. Didnt Harney set out on his mission about April 1 - the same time that Surratt is heading north? Good commanders assign their men to where their skills will prove most useful.