The evidence that sealed Mrs. Surratt's fate

[L Verge]

I don't think "extreme nervousness" would be an unusual listing as a cause of death in earlier generations where medical terminology was not as specific and highly defined. A great-grandson of Anna Surratt once told me that she suffered, and eventually died from, kidney failure brought on by severe nerves all of her life. Between what she went through with her mother and then losing several children, Anna would certainly be a candidate for "extreme nervousness."

BTW: You have no idea how badly I wish Anna Surratt had written her memoirs or at least left behind a journal or diary.

[Linda Anderson]

Good Friday is not a Holy Day of Obligation. Catholics are not obligated to attend Mass that day for the simple reason that Masses are not celebrated on Good Friday nor are Catholics required to attend services although many do. When Weichmann says he went to Mass on Good Friday morning, he is probably talking about the Mass of the Presanctified.

"The Mass of the Presanctified (Latin: missa præsanctificatorum, Greek: leitourgia ton proegiasmenon) is a Christian liturgy traditionally celebrated on Good Friday in which the consecration is not preformed. Instead, Holy Communion that was consecrated at an earlier Mass and reserved is distributed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_of_the_Presanctified

It is interesting to note that Weichmann says he was in his room reading when at "two o'clock, or half past two, there was a knock at the door and, on opening it, I beheld Mrs. Surratt with a letter in her hand."

Noon to three o'clock is the time of Jesus' suffering and death on the Cross. Churches also have services during this sacred time.

[LincolnMan]

(05-04-2013 12:28 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I don't think "extreme nervousness" would be an unusual listing as a cause of death in earlier generations where medical terminology was not as specific and highly defined. A great-grandson of Anna Surratt once told me that she suffered, and eventually died from, kidney failure brought on by severe nerves all of her life. Between what she went through with her mother and then losing several children, Anna would certainly be a candidate for "extreme nervousness."

BTW: You have no idea how badly I wish Anna Surratt had written her memoirs or at least left behind a journal or diary.

Really? I had no idea!

[MaddieM]

(05-02-2013 09:11 PM)Rhatkinson Wrote:  I recommend again Ms. Verge's (I suddenly remembered my manners and can't abide by continuing to refer to that nice lady by her first name) excellent paper/speech on Mrs. Surratt from 2003.

A KEY piece of evidence from that speech that I had previously overlooked is the behavior of Mrs. S on the night of the assassination. The testimony was that she "hustled" the ladies of her boarding house upstairs to bed before 10pm that evening, which was the only time she had ever done so at that hour. To me, this is damning testimony as why else would she have behaved so but for having inside information that "momentous" events were about to unfold that night? Perhaps she was made to believe that a kidnapping attempt was to be made again (I believe this WAS what she was told by JWB), but whether it was kidnapping or murder, the punishment was the same and she "deserved her fate." If the testimony is true, she knew something was afoot.

Just my thoughts. I would welcome discussion.

Heath

Deserved her fate? I'm not sure about that. I don't think any of them deserved to hang. Imprisonment, yes. Taking their lives, No.

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(05-03-2013 04:17 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Heath, I have stated this in previous threads, but I'll repeat briefly here. I have a minority view on this. I believe Mary's behavior was due to a 9:00 P.M. visit from JWB in which he told her what was about to happen (and may also have done so earlier in the day). Another reason for JWB's stop was to make sure she had completed her mission to Lloyd's. She then asked Weichmann to pray for her intentions. If Bill Richter is correct, JWB may also have dropped off two pistols and a hat which he picked up as he escaped Washington. Mary sent everyone to their rooms so she could be alone and hold these things to be picked up just like Lloyd (whom I regard as a conspirator) was holding onto other stuff that would be picked up. Earlier Mary had made sure the path to Lloyd's was clear when she determined pickets along the route would no longer be there when JWB passed. Whether or not Bill Richter is correct, I am in the "Kate Larson camp;" i.e. I think it's likely Mary knew the plan had changed to assassination prior to the tragedy at Ford's. I think Booth trusted her fully. He told Lloyd the president had been assassinated; I think he also told Mary he had changed the plan to assassination. As with Atzerodt, I believe Mary had a small "window of opportunity" to save the president's life. Like Atzerodt, she chose not to take advantage of it.

I think the majority of books conclude Mary knew about the kidnapping plot but not the assassination. My gut feeling is that she knew about both.

I think you're right. I think she knew for sure, or at the very least suspected. All her behaviour patterns indicate her guilt. Also, I read recently that Anna Surratt pleaded with Powell the day before he died to speak up about her mother's innocence. Why would she do that? Why wouldn't Powell, if he believed her innocent, have spoken up without a begging visit from Anna. He must have felt sorry for her, and felt also for Mary Surratt and tried to do something about it. After Mrs Surratt's damning denial of him at the boarding house, you'd think he'd want a bit of revenge.. .if he was a cold blooded assassin that is.

[Gene C]

I'm surprised Anna would be allowed to speak to Powell. Do you recall where you read about that?

[John E.]

Many people have expressed the opinion that the four conspirators who were hanged didn't deserve to die for their crimes. I'd like to know if this is because:

1. You don't believe in the death penalty
2. Didn't think the punishment matched the crime

** If you chose # 2, please remember that approximately 334 Volunteer soldiers were executed for desertion. Basically, executed for not wanting to fight. It wasn't until 1864 that Lincoln decided to send deserters to Ft. Jefferson.

** If we take in to consideration that these individuals conspired to assassinate the commander-in-chief, secretary of state and vice-president - thus attempting to send the government in to chaos, is it so alarming that they were sentenced to execution?

Here are the current military crimes punishable by death: (according to wiki - pls take with a grain of salt)

Punishable crimes

Currently, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 14 offenses are punishable by death. Under the following sections of the UCMJ, the death penalty can be imposed at any time:

Mutiny or sedition
Misbehavior before the enemy
Subordinate compelling surrender
Improper use of countersign
Forcing a safeguard
Aiding the enemy
Espionage
Improper hazarding of vessel
Murder (including both premeditated murder and felony murder)
Rape (including child rape)[4]

Four provisions of the UCMJ carry a death sentence only if the crime is committed during times of war:

Desertion
Assaulting or willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
Spies
Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout

[LincolnMan]

Do the penalties apply both to civilians and the military?

[BettyO]

The conspirators, I had always heard, were tried under the penalty of participating in a plot to overthrow the government; i.e. treason.

Under our Constitution, treason is punishable by death - no matter age or gender.

It had already been stated on the handbills (wanted posters) that anyone aiding or abetting Booth would suffer the death penalty. Herold was guilty of this as was Powell and quite possibly, Mrs. Surratt. Atzerodt, although he had a window in which he could have notified authorities as to what was going to happen, failed to carry out his plans and most importantly, failed to contact authorities. So he was also charged as an accessory.

Doster himself stated that Powell could only be charged with "Assault and Battery with Attempt to Kill - a penitentiary offense - not a death sentence." However, the Commission refused to listen to Doster and handed Powell the death sentence. Atzerodt got the same, more or less because as I previously stated - he knew of the plot, yet failed to reveal the particulars to the authorities.

Do you all think that if Atzerodt had "sung" earlier in the game that his sentence would have been lighter - perhaps as another one sent to Fort Jefferson with Spangler, Mudd, O'Laughlen and Arnold?

[L Verge]

When you read the charges and specifications against the conspirators, the government was very careful to describe their actions as "traitorous."

Maddie - England, of course, has a well-known history of executions in its earlier centuries. Do they still have a death sentence for certain crimes?

[Thomas Thorne]

No was ever tried for treason for killing Lincoln. The 8 who were tried in 1865 were charged with conspiring to kill Lincoln,Johnson,Seward and Grant. That their conspiring was also deemed malicious,unlawful and traitorous was verbiage on the part of the prosecution. John Surratt was tried for murder. Subsequent efforts to try him for treason were voided because the treason charges were made after the expiration of the statute of limitations for treason.

In the cabinet debates over the prosecution of Jefferson Davis for involvement in the Lincoln conspiracy and treason ,the consensus of opinion was that while Davis could be tried by a military commission for conspiracy in the assassination, he could only be tried in a civil court for treason. There was talk of 2 separate trials-1 military and 1 civil.

It would have been impossible to convict Mary Surratt of treason for arranging to have the "shooting irons" picked up by JWB based solely on the testimony of John Lloyd. Treason, the only crime defined in the Constitution, requires the testimony of two or more witnesses to the "same overt act or confession in open court."

I don't know how many people corroborated Weichmann's testimony about Mrs. S conferring with JWB behind closed doors but I don't see how such activities could constitute an "overt act" unless people overheard what they said and testified they were plotting to kidnap or kill Lincoln and the others.
Tom

[John E.]

Here's the charge for everyone to reference. Taken from your friendly Surratt Society site:

For maliciously, unlawfully, and traitorously, and in aid of the existing armed rebellion against the United States of America, on or before the 6th day of March, A D. 1865, and on divers other days between that day and the 15th day of April, A. D. 1865, combining, confederating, and conspiring together with one John H. Surratt, John Wilkes Booth, Jefferson Davis, George N. Sanders, Beverly Tucker, Jacob Thompson, William C. Cleary, Clement C. Clay, George Harper, George Young, and others unknown,to kill and murder, within the Military Department of Washington, and within the fortified and intrenched lines thereof, Abraham Lincoln, late, and at the time of said combining, confederating, and conspiring, President of the United States of America, and Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy thereof; Andrew Johnson, now Vice-President of the United States aforesaid; William H. Seward, Secretary of State of the United States aforesaid; and Ulysses S. Grant, Lieutenant-General of the Army of the United States aforesaid, then in command of the Armies of the United States, under the direction of the said Abraham Lincoln; and in pursuance of in prosecuting said malicious, unlawful and traitorous conspiracy aforesaid, and in aid of the said rebellion, afterward, to wit, on the 14th day of April, A. D. 1865, within the Military Department of Washington, aforesaid, and within the fortified and intrenched lines of said Military Department, together with said John Wilkes Booth and John H. Surratt, maliciously, unlawfully, and traitorously murdering the said Abraham Lincoln, then President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navies of the United States, as aforesaid; and maliciously, unlawfully, and traitorously assaulting, with intent to kill and murder, the said William H. Seward, then Secretary of State of the United States, as aforesaid; and lying in wait with intent maliciously, unlawfully, and traitorously to kill and murder the said Andrew Johnson, then being Vice-President of the United States; and the said Ulysses S. Grant, then being Lieutenant-General, and in command of the Armies of the United States, as aforesaid.

[L Verge]

Thanks, John. I knew that the word "traitorously" was used fairly extensively. For one who is ignorant of the law, could the government have (or did they) attempt to combine the testimonies of Lloyd and Weichmann to prove Mrs. Surratt was traitorous and part of the existing armed rebellion? Am I also wrong that aiding the enemy, espionage, and spying - as previously listed by John - would not factor into the equation?

[Jim Page]

Just throwing this out for discussion: Could Mrs. Surratt have been Booth's handler or the person he reported to? Could she possibly be more of a key individual in this situation than is currently acknowledged?

I have no opinion on this, other than a suspicion that a person with such an implacable personality may be capable of more than one might otherwise expect.

--Jim

[MaddieM]

(05-05-2013 08:57 AM)John E. Wrote:  Many people have expressed the opinion that the four conspirators who were hanged didn't deserve to die for their crimes. I'd like to know if this is because:

1. You don't believe in the death penalty
2. Didn't think the punishment matched the crime

** If you chose # 2, please remember that approximately 334 Volunteer soldiers were executed for desertion. Basically, executed for not wanting to fight. It wasn't until 1864 that Lincoln decided to send deserters to Ft. Jefferson.

** If we take in to consideration that these individuals conspired to assassinate the commander-in-chief, secretary of state and vice-president - thus attempting to send the government in to chaos, is it so alarming that they were sentenced to execution?

Here are the current military crimes punishable by death: (according to wiki - pls take with a grain of salt)

Punishable crimes

Currently, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 14 offenses are punishable by death. Under the following sections of the UCMJ, the death penalty can be imposed at any time:

Mutiny or sedition
Misbehavior before the enemy
Subordinate compelling surrender
Improper use of countersign
Forcing a safeguard
Aiding the enemy
Espionage
Improper hazarding of vessel
Murder (including both premeditated murder and felony murder)
Rape (including child rape)[4]

Four provisions of the UCMJ carry a death sentence only if the crime is committed during times of war:

Desertion
Assaulting or willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
Spies
Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout

I don't believe in the death penalty. I never have. Just as we don't have a right to kill anyone, we also have no right to take another's life in revenge for that. Punishment by imprisonment yes. Death, no. Just my personal belief on this of course.

---

(05-05-2013 10:25 AM)L Verge Wrote:  When you read the charges and specifications against the conspirators, the government was very careful to describe their actions as "traitorous."

Maddie - England, of course, has a well-known history of executions in its earlier centuries. Do they still have a death sentence for certain crimes?

No, England stopped executions in 1963 or thereabouts. We have very lenient sentences here.

---

(05-05-2013 07:43 AM)Gene C Wrote:  I'm surprised Anna would be allowed to speak to Powell. Do you recall where you read about that?

Here

http://www.civilwarwomenblog.com/2011/09...rratt.html


I think there were other sources... I can't remember where though.

Of course, there seem to be so many conflicting accounts. Not sure how true it is.

[Jim Garrett]

(05-05-2013 06:40 PM)Jim Page Wrote:  Just throwing this out for discussion: Could Mrs. Surratt have been Booth's handler or the person he reported to? Could she possibly be more of a key individual in this situation than is currently acknowledged?

I have no opinion on this, other than a suspicion that a person with such an implacable personality may be capable of more than one might otherwise expect.

--Jim

Wow Jim. I never ever even considered that Mary Surratt could have been THE operative in Washington! Boy, that would really give a whole new perspective on it.

She runs a safehouse in Maryland, then is instructed to move her base of operation into D.C. as the war becomes more desparate, and an abduction plot(s) is put into action.

Explains a little more on Gus Howell.