Presidents and First Ladies Trivia

[RJNorton]

Yes, Linda! The quote is from a letter she wrote November 5, 1775.

[LincolnMan]

Washington?

[RJNorton]

The following quote comes from a letter that a future First Lady wrote to the man she would marry. She married him about 5 1/2 months afterwards. This was many, many years before he became president. She was 19 years old when she wrote the letter.

"I think that a gentleman has no business to concern himself about the legs of a lady."

Who wrote this to her future husband?

[antiquefinder]

(01-24-2013 10:27 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  The following quote comes from a letter that a future First Lady wrote to the man she would marry. She married him about 5 1/2 months afterwards. This was many, many years before he became president. She was 19 years old when she wrote the letter.

"I think that a gentleman has no business to concern himself about the legs of a lady."

Who wrote this to her future husband?

Abigail Adams?

[RJNorton]

Gloria, kudos!

Yes, Abigail Adams included those words in a letter to John Adams on May 9, 1764.

[Gene C]

Kinda of makes you wonder what he did or said to elicit that kind of a reponse.

[Linda Anderson]

Was Abigail writing about her future husband or someone else?

[RJNorton]

I was using a quote book as my source for the question. Linda, I just now tried to find the entire letter online, and I found it. It looks like the quote is actually within a sentence, but here's the entire letter. The reference to legs comes fairly close to the end.

------------------------------------------------------------

Abigail Smith to John Adams

Date: 1764-05-09

Weymouth May. th 9 1764

Welcome, Welcome thrice welcome is Lysander to Braintree, but ten times more so would he be at Weymouth, whither you are afraid to come.—Once it was not so. May not I come and see you, at least look thro a window at you? Should you not be glad to see your Diana? I flatter myself you would.

Your Brother brought your Letter, tho he did not let me see him, deliverd it the Doctor from whom received it safe. I thank you for {p. 47} your Catalogue, but must confess I was so hardned as to read over most of my Faults with as much pleasure, as an other person would have read their perfections. And Lysander must excuse me if I still persist in some of them, at least till I am convinced that an alteration would contribute to his happiness. Especially may I avoid that Freedom of Behaviour which according to the plan given, consists in Voilations of Decency, and which would render me unfit to Herd even with the Brutes. And permit me to tell you Sir, nor disdain to be a learner, that there is such a thing as Modesty without either Hypocricy or Formality.

As to a neglect of Singing, that I acknowledg to be a Fault which if posible shall not be complaind of a second time, nor should you have had occasion for it now, if I had not a voice harsh as the screech of a peacock.

The Capotal fault shall be rectified, tho not with any hopes of being lookd upon as a Beauty, to appear agreeable in the Eyes of Lysander, has been for Years past, and still is the height of my ambition.

The 5th fault, will endeavour to amend of it, but you know I think that a gentleman has no business to concern himself about the Leggs of a Lady, for my part I do not apprehend any bad effects from the practise, yet since you desire it, and that you may not for the future trouble Yourself so much about it, will reform.

The sixth and last can be cured only by a Dancing School.

But I must not write more. I borrow a hint from you, therefore will not add to my faults that of a tedious Letter—a fault I never yet had reason to complain of in you, for however long, they never were otherways than agreeable to your own


A Smith

[Gene C]

That certainly cleared that up
guess that's what we get for reading other peoples mail

[Linda Anderson]

Now we have to find John's or Lysander's, letter to Abigail (Diana) detailing her faults.

"The 5th fault, will endeavour to amend of it, but you know I think that a gentleman has no business to concern himself about the Leggs of a Lady, for my part I do not apprehend any bad effects from the practise, yet since you desire it, and that you may not for the future trouble Yourself so much about it, will reform."

What "practise" is Abagail talking about that has John so concerned about her legs? It can't be dancing as that is covered in her next reply.

"The sixth and last can be cured only by a Dancing School."

[Laurie Verge]

I hope that "Lysander's" letter was written in jest, or at least more kindly, than what Abigail's replies might suggest. It almost appears like he was sending her a laundry list of problems that she would have to correct in order to please him.

Am I correct in believing that the male half of the Adams family was slightly devoid of humor and frivolity? I bet Abe Lincoln would have caught heqq from Mary Todd if he sent her a list of faults to correct.

[Gene C]

It's a whole lot better to try and fix the faults before your married than after.
I was just a shaggy old mutt before, but look at me now!

[RJNorton]

(01-24-2013 03:35 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote:  I hope that "Lysander's" letter was written in jest, or at least more kindly, than what Abigail's replies might suggest. It almost appears like he was sending her a laundry list of problems that she would have to correct in order to please him.

Am I correct in believing that the male half of the Adams family was slightly devoid of humor and frivolity? I bet Abe Lincoln would have caught heqq from Mary Todd if he sent her a list of faults to correct.

Laurie, I think you are definitely correct in that this would not have gone over well with Mary Ann Todd.

I believe I found the letter than precipitated her response.

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Letter from John Adams to Abigail Smith, 7 May 1764

I promised you, Sometime agone, a Catalogue of your Faults, Imperfections, Defects, or whatever you please to call them. I feel at present, pretty much at Leisure, and in a very suitable Frame of Mind to perform my Promise. But I must caution you, before I proceed to recollect yourself, and instead of being vexed and or fretted or thrown into a Passion, to resolve upon a Reformation-for this is my sincere Aim, in laying before you, this Picture of yourself.

In the first Place, then, give me leave to told say, you have been extreamly negligent, in attending so little to Cards. You have very litle Inclination, to that noble and elegant Diversion, and whenever you have taken an Hand you have held it but aukwardly and played it, with a very uncourtly, and indifferent, Air. -- Now I have Confidence enough in your good sense, to rely upon it, you will for the future endeavour to make a better Figure in this elegant and necessary Accomplishment.

Another Thing, which ought to be mentioned, and by all means amended, is, the Effect of a Country Life and Education, I mean, a certain Modesty, sensibility, Bashfulness, call it by which of these Names you will, that enkindles Blushes forsooth at every Violation of Decency, in Company, and lays a most insupportable Constraint on the freedom of Behaviour. Thanks to the late Refinements of modern manners, Hypocrisy, superstition, and Formality have lost all Reputation in the World and the utmost sublimation of Politeness and Gentility lies, in Ease, and Freedom, or in other Words in a natural Air and Behaviour, and in expressing a satisfaction at whatever is suggested and prompted by Nature, which the aforesaid Violations of Decency, most certainly are.

In the Third Place, you could never yet be prevail'd on to learn to sing. This I take very soberly to be an Imperfection of the most moment of any. An Ear and a for Musick would be a source of much Pleasure, and a Voice and skill, would be a private solitary Amusement, of great Value when no other could be had. You must have remarked an Example of this in Mrs. Cranch, who must in all probability have been deafened to Death with the Cries of her Betcy, if she had not drowned them in [illegible] Musick of her own.

In the Fourth Place you very often hang your Head like a Bulrush. You do not sit, erected as you ought, by which Means, it happens that you appear too short for a Beauty, and the Company looses the sweet smiles of that Countenance and the bright sparkles of those Eyes. - This Fault is the Effect and Consequence of another, still more inexcusable in a Lady. I mean an Habit of Reading, Writing and Thinking. -- But both the Cause and the Effect ought to be repented and amended as soon as possible.

Another Fault, which seems to have been obstinately persisted in, after frequent Remonstrances, Advices and Admonitions of your Friends, is that of sitting with the Leggs across. This ruins the figure and the Air, this injures the Health. -- And springs I fear from the former source vizt. too much Thinking. -- These Things ought not to be!

A sixth Imperfection is that of Walking, with the Toes bending inward. This Imperfection is commonly called Parrot-toed, I think, I know not for what Reason. But it gives an Idea, the reverse of a bold and noble Air, the state the Reverse of the stately strutt, and the sublime Deportment. --

Thus have I given a faithful Portraiture of all the Spotts, I have hitherto discerned in this Luminary.

Have not regarded [illegible] Order, but have painted them as they arose in my Memory. Near Three Weeks have I [illegible] conned and studied for more, but more are not to be discovered. All the rest is bright and luminous. --

Having finished the Picture I finish my Letter, lest while I am recounting Faults, I should commit the greatest that of in a Letter, that of tedious and excessive Length. There's a prettily turned Conclusion for You! from yr.

Lysander

[Gene C]

Well, now we know why she married John

[Linda Anderson]

So Abigail has the problem with her legs because she thinks too much!

"Another Fault, which seems to have been obstinately persisted in, after frequent Remonstrances, Advices and Admonitions of your Friends, is that of sitting with the Leggs across. This ruins the figure and the Air, this injures the Health. -- And springs I fear from the former source vizt. too much Thinking. -- These Things ought not to be!"

Thanks for finding them, Roger. Laurie is right that the letters were written in jest (I hope).