Worship in Washington
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05-01-2021, 04:13 AM
Post: #16
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RE: Worship in Washington
One story I like from this time period goes as follows:
After Willie died in 1862 Dr. Francis Vinton, rector of Trinity Church, came down to Washington from New York. He was a friend of the Lincoln family, and was allowed in to see the President. Not wanting to beat around the bush, he told him it was not right to mourn like this over his son. He said, “Your son is alive in paradise with Christ, and you must not continue.” Lincoln sat there as though he were in a stupor, and then his mind caught onto the words that Dr. Vinton had said. He exclaimed, “Alive! Alive! Surely, sir, you mock me.” “No, Mr. President, it is a great doctrine of the church. Jesus himself said that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Lincoln leaped to his feet and threw his arms around this pastor. He wept openly and sobbed, saying, “Alive! Alive! My boy is alive!” From that day on there began a change in Lincoln that even his wife Mary noticed. One book that carries a version of this story is Twenty Days (p. 137). Twenty Days does not have footnotes, so I do not know the source. If anyone knows the story's source, please post! Thanks. |
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05-01-2021, 08:55 AM
Post: #17
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RE: Worship in Washington
(05-01-2021 04:13 AM)RJNorton Wrote: One book that carries a version of this story is Twenty Days (p. 137). Twenty Days does not have footnotes, so I do not know the source. If anyone knows the story's source, please post! Thanks. The earliest source I could fine is "The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln: Six Months At the White House" by F B Carpenter (!866) It can also found in "Abraham Lincoln: From Skeptic to Prophet", by Wayne Temple and "The Religion of Abraham Lincoln" or "The Almost Chosen People" by William J Wolf So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in? |
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05-01-2021, 11:16 AM
Post: #18
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RE: Worship in Washington
Thanks, Gene. Apparently Carpenter was telling the story of the event as Lincoln told it to him. The Fehrenbachers give Carpenter's reminiscences a mixture of C's and D's.
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05-01-2021, 11:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2021 11:20 AM by David Lockmiller.)
Post: #19
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RE: Worship in Washington
(05-01-2021 04:13 AM)RJNorton Wrote: One story I like from this time period goes as follows: "So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out the truth of anything by history." -- Plutarch |
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05-01-2021, 02:31 PM
Post: #20
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RE: Worship in Washington
I agree Carpenter is a valuable resource, and I really like his book. I find it amazing he could apparently remember all these details and stories.
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05-11-2021, 02:16 AM
Post: #21
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RE: Worship in Washington
I came across this excellent article from 2018 about Rev. Gurley, Lincoln, and faith:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/262986...w=fulltext Gene, I would definitely recommend this article you - if you haven't read it already. |
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05-11-2021, 06:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2021 02:15 PM by Gene C.)
Post: #22
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RE: Worship in Washington
Thank you Steve.
I haven't previously read it. So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in? |
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05-11-2021, 09:58 AM
Post: #23
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RE: Worship in Washington
(05-11-2021 02:16 AM)Steve Wrote: I came across this excellent article from 2018 about Rev. Gurley, Lincoln, and faith: Dr. and Mrs. Gurley attended the Lincolns’ Grand Presidential Party on February 5, 1862, held as both Willie and Tad Lincoln were ill with typhoid fever. Gurley would attend their sickbeds that month as the disease ran its course. While Tad recovered, newspapers announced on February 17 that there was no hope for Willie. The pastor reported that “as Willie Lincoln lay dying, he said to me, ‘Doctor Gurley, I have six one dollar gold pieces in my bank over there on the mantel. Please send them to the missionaries for me.” Willie participated in the Youth’s Missionary Society at Gurley’s church, which sponsored clergy in China. The contribution was duly noted in the church accounts book. Willie Lincoln died on February 20. "So very difficult a matter is it to trace and find out the truth of anything by history." -- Plutarch |
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05-11-2021, 01:23 PM
Post: #24
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RE: Worship in Washington
The 2018 article on the relationship between the Rev. Dr. Gurley and Lincoln is most comprehensive and fascinating. I had no idea that their relationship was so close and so introspective. Both men were able to distill complex thought processes into understandable words, even if they were for one's own use as the "Meditation on the Divine Will" certainly was. It is curious, however, that since a component of all religious ministers is evangelization, that Dr. Gurley seemingly never discussed baptism into the church with Lincoln. That would be a logical conclusion to some of their discussions. If my old memory serves me correctly, it is unknown if Lincoln was ever baptised into a formal denomination but the consensus is likely likely that he was not. Not withstanding that, Lincoln possessed an immense faith which influenced his convictions
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05-11-2021, 03:15 PM
Post: #25
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RE: Worship in Washington
(05-11-2021 01:23 PM)Dennis Urban Wrote: If my old memory serves me correctly, it is unknown if Lincoln was ever baptised into a formal denomination but the consensus is likely that he was not. Ed Steers discussed the possibility Lincoln was baptized in an article titled "A Question of Faith: Was Lincoln a Christian?" in the September 1999 edition of "North and South" magazine (Volume 2, Number 7). Here is a brief summary of what Ed wrote. There are four stories that have circulated over the years concerning Lincoln's alleged baptism. The first one appeared in 1942. In this story a minister of the Disciples of Christ (Brethren) whose name was John O'Kane told of secretly baptizing Lincoln in a creek near Springfield. This account appeared in the "Christian Evangelist" in 1942. The second account appeared in a small book written by Reverend Freeman Ankrum and was published in 1947. In this account Lincoln was baptized by a member of the German Baptist Church commonly known as the "Drunkards." In the third account, which appeared in a book in 1956, a minister, who was a member of the Church of Brethren, came to Springfield from Indiana at night and the baptism was secretly carried out in the Sangamon River. The fourth and final account appeared in Mariah Vance's "Lincoln's Unknown Private Life." Vance was the Lincolns' housekeeper. The account is similar to the 3rd story only the baptism was allegedly carried out by the Reverend David Elkins. Since Elkins died in 1857 we know this account is false, and historians generally discount all of these stories. Ed concluded, "The baptism of Abraham Lincoln is one of those apocryphal stories that persists in Lincoln lore. It never happened." |
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05-11-2021, 06:19 PM
Post: #26
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RE: Worship in Washington
How do we know Abraham Lincoln wasn't baptized at his father, Thomas's church? I know Thomas was a Baptist and didn't practice infant baptism, but Abraham stayed with his father until he was 21. Wouldn't that be the most obvious possibility?
Is there some account or document which specifically says that he wasn't baptized before he left his father's household? It would seem to be a more likely possibility than some "secret baptism" story. |
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