Lincoln Discussion Symposium

Where did the Lincoln's usually attend worship in Washington DC?

Is the building still standing?

Gene,

They usually attended the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church, which, according to this article on the church's website, apparently no longer stands. The Rev. Phineas Gurley performed Willie Lincoln's funeral. Here's some more information on the church as well as this piece from Abraham Lincoln Online.

Best
Rob

The article from Abraham Lincoln Online is my favorite because it gives a good description of Lincoln-related items that are still in the church. The Lincoln parlor has a copy of the Emancipation Proclamation and furniture of the Lincoln era. Visitors are allowed to sit in the Lincoln pew, and the Lincoln window is gorgeous.

The church sits in the middle of a bustling street scene with much traffic going around it on all sides, and it also serves many of the hungry and needy of D.C. Surratt House has taken bus tours there several times as part of our popular Mr. Lincoln's Washington tours.

I'm confused-is the church standing or no? Rob, I see you've changed your avatar!

Bill,

The church that Lincoln attended is not standing. It was replaced in 1951 by the present building.

I had originally changed it to Tarbell sitting at her writing desk, but you couldn't see her. This is her when she was working for McClure's Magazine at the time she was writing her Lincoln series.

Best
Rob

Thanks Rob. Does the avatar now indicate you've made a decision about the direction you will go with your book? Also, thanks for clarifying the church question.

Yep. I've decided to go with Tarbell first and then tackle Sandburg.

Best
Rob

Abraham Lincoln never officially joined a church, although after his death many churches wanted to claim him as a member. There is an apocryphal story that he was planning on being baptized at the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington on Easter of 1865, but there is no evidence that this is true. When he attended church with Mary, it was always a Presbyterian Church in both Springfield and in Washington. Mary was raised a member of the Episcopalian Church but joined the First Presbyterian Church in Springfield after ministered to by its pastor Dr. James Smith after Eddie's death.

Even though he never joined a church, Lincoln liked to discuss theological issues with ministers and he didn't seem to have a problem with Tad being Baptized. Sadly, Lincoln never detailed his beliefs in God. Mary said when asked about her husband's faith that he was not a conventional Christian. I think Lincoln may have been put off by the absolutism of the Baptist Predestinarian church of his parents and by the emotional and doctrinal excesses of the 2nd Great Awakening Revival of his youth. I think he rejected doctrine and dogma (similar to Quakers and Unitarian/Universalists) but maintained a belief in God rooted in his profound knowledge and love of the Bible. It's pretty clear, I think, that he rejected the doctrine of Predestination espoused by John Calvin because he loved so the poetry of Robert Burns whose poem "Holy Willie's Prayer." is an indictment of Predestination. It could be that Lincoln internalized Robert Burns negative attitude toward institutional religion (for Burns, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland) but not faith itself.

Lincoln seems to have developed a more positive but still realistic view of human nature. It could be that Mary was the one with the negative, perhaps Predestinational, view of people because of the tragedies in her life.

Offhand I cannot give a source for this, but I once read that Lincoln sometimes would not sit in the family pew at the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church. Rather he would sit alone in Reverend Gurley's office with the door ajar and listen to the sermons from that location.

And yet we read that Lincoln tended to be somewhat of a Fatalist-which seems very similar to predestination.

As Rob has stated, the current New York Avenue Presbyterian Church is not original. They did create a Lincoln Parlor, however, off the main sanctuary reminiscent of Dr. Gurley's office where Lincoln sat on a sofa to hear the service without creating a "disturbance" by being among the communicants.

I'm not sure of the history or when this occurred, but the current steeple of the church was a gift from Robert Todd Lincoln.

But the Lincoln pew is still there?

Yes, the pew is still there among the regular seats (the church is huge); and I have sat in it quite a few times when we've taken bus tours there. I wanted to get Lincoln's vibes, but I didn't... I think the sofa in the Lincoln Parlor is also the original one.

Outside, the hitching post and I believe the carriage block from Lincoln's time is still in place.

Laurie that is awesome!

I came across this article on Dr. Phineas Gurley:

http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/the-p...as-gurley/

which has some really interesting stories relating to Gurley and Lincoln's relationship and Lincoln's religious views while he was president.