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[jonathan]

A word about ancestry.com, since it was mentioned. I think it's important to be careful with some of the information you find there in terms of not taking it as absolute truth. I've never used it personally, but I have a buddy who got into genealogy a couple of years ago and discovered that there was information that he would find on there that was very confusing and sometimes just wrong. I don't really remember the details, but it seems there was an issue where people would put information on there that they had gotten somewhere else, without first checking that information for accuracy, etc. They would basically just do a "cut and paste" type thing. I realize that for those of you who do research, it's standard procedure to take everything with a grain of salt until it can be verified to a certain point, just wanted to say that ancestry.com is no different. It being such a big name in the genealogy game, didn't want people to think it had immunity.

[BettyO]

Supposedly when he was with Thompson's pharmacy, I think, Herold DID deliver medications to the White House.

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Quote:A word about ancestry.com, since it was mentioned. I think it's important to be careful with some of the information you find there in terms of not taking it as absolute truth. I've never used it personally, but I have a buddy who got into genealogy a couple of years ago and discovered that there was information that he would find on there that was very confusing and sometimes just wrong. I don't really remember the details, but it seems there was an issue where people would put information on there that they had gotten somewhere else, without first checking that information for accuracy, etc. They would basically just do a "cut and paste" type thing. I realize that for those of you who do research, it's standard procedure to take everything with a grain of salt until it can be verified to a certain point, just wanted to say that ancestry.com is no different. It being such a big name in the genealogy game, didn't want people to think it had immunity.

Right you are, Jonathan! However, Ancestry can lead to plenty of good things; i.e. the 1865 DC City Directory (even if it is downloadable only one page at a time!) I have also been in touch with descendants of the Branson family courtesy of Ancestry as well as other fine folk....so it does have it's perks if utilized properly.

[RJNorton]

(05-12-2013 09:08 AM)KateH. Wrote:  Roger, I also agree with Betty. Of course we have no proof of who thought up the idea of Powell posing as a delivery man. However, given as how Herold probably had done the same job, it seems likely he thought of it. He probably knew someone delivering medicine was more likely to be welcomed inside without questions. For example, not sure if the story is true, but didn't Herold deliver castor oil to the Executive Mansion and give it to Lincoln?

Kate, I have read that, too. For some reason I think it came up at the John Surratt trial, but I am unsure on that.

[KateH.]

Web of Conspiracy by Theodore Roscoe mentions it on page 57.

"Herold met President Lincoln. He delivered a bottle of castor oil...On a day for afterthought, David Herold would recall the President's sense of humor."

According to Roscoe, in 1863 Herold was working for Druggist William S. Thompson. Thompson thought Herold was "reliable enough to be trusted with an errand to the White House."

Is there any transcript from the JS trial available?

[RJNorton]

Yes. You can download the trial as a .pdf file:

http://archive.org/details/trialjohnhsurra00surrgoog

[KateH.]

Thank you

[John Stanton]

Jonathan. I am not criticising you - but I have to take exception with your buddy. If the information in Ancestry is wrong, it is because it was wrong in the original. Even the U.S. Census has errors. The early Census takers were the Provost Marshals. (Need I say More?) however if you find an error in Ancestry and bring it to their attention - they DO NOT CHANGE THE RECORD, they will add your correction on another line in their presentation. I don't see how anyone can "cut and paste" in Ancestry. The original copy is somewhere else in the world and your screen is a copy. That copy is not returned to Ancestry to replace the original. I support your what you are trying to accomplish, "Be CAREFUL" . With this thought let me add - Check and recheck the name that appears on your screen. If you search "Tom Jones", Ancestry will give you a Zillion Tom Jones', (there were 2 born every month for the past 100 years), 20%, in the same town, 40% in the same State, 100% with parents of the same name,) What I am saying is be careful and you will find that Ancestry is right. ( There were 127 "Sarah A. Slaters" to check, before the right one stood up.)

[jonathan]

I wasn't meaning to say that ancestry.com itself was at fault. But when a friend uses their website to research my family and finds information that proves to be incorrect, for whatever reason, I think it's fair to warn people to be on the lookout for the same. I don't remember all the details of the problems he had, only that there were problems. The part about cutting and pasting may be me misremembering the details of what he said. Here's an example of a very simple thing that can go wrong...I have a great aunt named Carolyn. He found something on ancestry.com that had her name as Caroline. Being a great aunt, I honestly didn't know all that much about her story, so I called my mom and asked her about it. My mom said that her name was Carolyn, but got curious about it, so she called the aunt to ask. The story is that her birth name was Caroline, but she always hated that name, so when she turned 18 she went and had it legally changed to Carolyn. There was information on ancestry.com that had her name as Caroline, which according to the woman herself had been legally changed to Carolyn decades before. All I'm saying is be aware. By the way, Aunt Carolyn/Caroline is just one example of the awesome, strong southern women in my family. Another is Cousin Addie, who the other day confirmed she will be attending my dad's 80's birthday party this weekend. Cousin Addie is a firecracker in her early 90's who still lives alone, many years after her husband died. We kind of rock

[John Stanton]

Johnathan. "Caroline/Carolyn" is the type of error that I attribute to the person interviewed and the Census Taker. But cut and paste could be outright fraud. My Grandfather remained hidden by poor penmanship. His name was John J. but it appears as John I. Your "be aware" sums up your point, that applies across the board.
PS. Since you live in Raleigh, I would like to ask for a favor. Sarah Slater's father died in Raleigh on 13 Nov. 1861. I have not been able to get confirmation of that. Can you check in with the people there and see if you can find a Death Certificate? Obviously, I will cover your expenses. PLEZZ!!!

[John Fazio]

Linda, Roger, Laurie, et al.:

The matter of how Henry and Clara got to Ford's continues to crop up. Let me try to put it to rest.

1. Rathbone's statement that "...in company with Miss Harris, I left my residence...and joined the President and Mrs. Lincoln, and went with them in their carriage to Ford's Theatre..." sounds as if he stepped out of his residence and into a carriage that already had the Lincolns in it, but in fact it cannot mean that; it must mean, rather, that he stepped into the carriage which was then driven back to the White House for the purpose of joiining the Lincolns before being driven to the theater. How can I be sure of that? Because:

1. Noah Brooks, who was at the White House, recorded that: Speaker Colfax and your correspondent were at the house just before he went out for the last time alive...Mrs. Lincoln's carriage was at the door, seated in it being Miss Harris...and Major Rathbone...The President and wife entered and drove off..."

2. Forbes said, in his 1892 Affidavit: " "I still had it (a picture Tad Lincoln had given him) in my pocket when Mrs Lincoln and her guests were ready to start for the theatre.

3. Carl Sandburg wrote, in The Prairie Years, "In the carriage into which the President and his wife stepped were ...Rathbone and...Harris...The carriage left the White House with its four occupants...Burns (sic) and ...Forbes."

4. Clara M. Laughlin wrote, in 1909, that Mrs. Lincoln sent word to Harris and Rathbone that the White House carriage would call for them a little after eight and that when the carriage finally left [i]the [/i]White House for the theatre, [i]the young [i]sweethearts were in [/i]festive mood at the evening's prospect, [/i]and the President responded to it with much happiness in their care-free company (citing information given to the author by the Rathbone's son, Henry, Jr., from Chicago).

5. Katherine Helm, in The Story of Mary, Wife of Lincoln, wrote:

a. Mrs. Lincoln invited us (a different couple; not Rathbone and Harris) to go to Ford's Theatre one night, sending the carriage to take us to the White House and thence to the theater. (p. 242)

b. It was after eight o'clock when the Presidential theater party left the White House. (p. 256)

Roger, Gath is good. Laurie, you are on the money.

I hope the foregoing will put this issue to rest, but I welcome further elucidation.

I have the honor to be
Your most obedient and humble servant,

John

[RJNorton]

John, kudos on all research you have done. Assuming you are correct, could the whole thing have begun with Oldroyd (1901), and then other authors simply followed his lead? I checked Oldroyd, and here is what he wrote:

"It was ten minutes after eight o'clock when Mr. and Mrs. Lincoln entered their carriage, arriving at the residence of Senator Harris, corner of Fifteenth and H streets, the present site of the Columbian University, ten minutes later, calling for Major Rathbone and Miss Harris, and reaching the theater at half-past eight o'clock."

[KateH.]

This is not on the topic of Major Rathbone (sorry) but does anyone know if Oldroyd had a habit of signing his books? There is a copy of his Lincoln Assassination book in my school library with a signature. I'm not sure if it's authentic or just some jokester that had a marker.

[BettyO]

Quote:Gath is good.

I agree with John.

Just don't read his Katy of Catoctin - unless you suffer from insomnia! It's a sure cure!

I like Victorian fiction, but..... Never COULD get through that one.....

However, his Life, Crime and Capture of John Wilkes Booth is exceedingly good inasmuch as it is a complete transcript of all of his articles written as a journalist for the New York World while covering the assassination, the Conspiracy Trial and the execution.

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Quote:This is not on the topic of Major Rathbone (sorry) but does anyone know if Oldroyd had a habit of signing his books? There is a copy of his Lincoln Assassination book in my school library with a signature. I'm not sure if it's authentic or just some jokester that had a marker.

As long as it's not inscribed from Oldroyd to Ray Neff..... (Just kidding.... )

I DO believe that I've seen some copies of Oldroyd with a facisimlie signature -


Here's an excellent link to Mr. Oldroyd - http://battleofchampionhill.org/history/oldroyd.htm

As well as a link to a FREE Ebook biography of Oldroyd
http://archive.org/details/lifeofosbornhold00benh

Oldroyd has ALWAYS been one of my favorites!

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Uh-oh.... seems our "Mr. Potter" also got in on the Oldroyd act....

Now I'm not so sure of the Oldroyd facimilie signature in those books!

http://library.indstate.edu/about/units/...ldroyd.pdf

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Mr. Oldroyd on perhaps what was the first JWB Escape Route Tour -- entirely on foot - as far as I know.....

[BettyO]

Kate -

Your Oldroyd library book MAY be original with an original signature -- here is the Ebook version of a signed and numbered edition!

[John Fazio]

(05-13-2013 11:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  John, kudos on all research you have done. Assuming you are correct, could the whole thing have begun with Oldroyd (1901), and then other authors simply followed his lead? I checked Oldroyd, and here is what he wrote:

"It was ten minutes after eight o'clock when Mr. and Mrs. Lincoln entered their carriage, arriving at the residence of Senator Harris, corner of Fifteenth and H streets, the present site of the Columbian University, ten minutes later, calling for Major Rathbone and Miss Harris, and reaching the theater at half-past eight o'clock."

Roger:

It could have been Oldroyd, or perhaps another of the early assassination historians. This sort of thing frequently happens: someone says something and it becomes Gospel and is followed mindlessly by a long train of secondary authority. The business about Herold accompanying Powell is another such myth. As is the business about "kidnapping". Stop and think about it for a minute, objectively: Do we really believe that Davis, Benjamin, Seddon, Breckenridge, Thompson, Cleary, Clay, Holcombe, Tucker, Sanders, Martin, all the other Canadian Cabinet members and all the other politically and militarily savvy Confederate leaders, listened to a harebrained, madcap scheme about kidnapping the President and holding him for something that was already being done, since January, 1865, namely prisoner exchange, from a 26-year old actor who knew nothing of politics or military science, and said: "Wow. What a great idea, John. Go for it!. I wonder why we didn't think of that."

John