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Steve Whitlock · 07-21-2019, 03:55 AM

(07-21-2019 01:40 AM)Steve Wrote: Honestly, I don't think you can really draw any conclusions about their relative heights. Dr. Scott kinda looks like he might be slightly taller than the mummy but you can't be sure by their relative positions in the photographs.

That's why I said it was inconclusive. I thought of camera angle maybe giving an illusion of height difference and all that, but how is the mummy to stand upright, and be accurate? We don't know what is holding the mummy up, or how the photo was orchestrated. It has to be somewhat compressed, I
would think. But judging by the hands and feet I would expect David E. George to have been at least 6 ft. tall. There was a sheriff who said he was a tall man, but his testimony was suspect, if I recall correctly. Back in those days a person was considered tall at 6 ft.

Steve Whitlock · (This post was last modified: 07-22-2019 10:01 AM by Steve Whitlock.)

(07-19-2019 07:01 PM)Steve Wrote: I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

The link you provided mentioned in passing David E. George of French Camp, MS. After a 'what's this?' from me I found in my notes something I hadn't read for sources of the Wikipedia article for Finis L. Bates.

"Finis L. Bates
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

References:
12. According to James Hall, in 1902 David E. George filled out an insurance application, giving his personal information thereon as follows: David Elihu George. born on June 14, 1844 in French Camp, Choctaw County, Mississippi."

In the 1850 census of Choctaw Co., MS there is a William George family; however, he has a daughter born 1842 in GA and a son, John George b: abt 1847 in MS, but no David George.

In the 1840 census of Choctaw Co., MS we have:

Eliza George

in the 1840 United States Federal Census

Name: Eliza George
Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Choctaw, Mississippi
Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 1
Persons Employed in Agriculture: 1
Schools - Primary and Common Schools: 1
Schools - No. of Scholars (Pri/Comm): 20
No. White Persons over 20 Who Cannot Read and Write: 1
Free White Persons - Under 20: 2
Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 1
Total Free White Persons: 3
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 3
*******************************************
I don't know what became of the young Eliza George family, but they could be the family of David E. George, and there is a son 0-4 years old.

(07-22-2019 09:46 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:
(07-19-2019 07:01 PM)Steve Wrote: I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

The link you provided mentioned in passing David E. George of French Camp, MS. After a 'what's this?' from me I found in my notes something I hadn't read for sources of the Wikipedia article for Finis L. Bates.

"Finis L. Bates
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

References:
12. According to James Hall, in 1902 David E. George filled out an insurance application, giving his personal information thereon as follows: David Elihu George. born on June 14, 1844 in French Camp, Choctaw County, Mississippi."

In the 1850 census of Choctaw Co., MS there is a William George family; however, he has a daughter born 1842 in GA and a son, John George b: abt 1847 in MS, but no David George.

In the 1840 census of Choctaw Co., MS we have:

Eliza George

in the 1840 United States Federal Census

Name: Eliza George
Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Choctaw, Mississippi
Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 1
Persons Employed in Agriculture: 1
Schools - Primary and Common Schools: 1
Schools - No. of Scholars (Pri/Comm): 20
No. White Persons over 20 Who Cannot Read and Write: 1
Free White Persons - Under 20: 2
Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 1
Total Free White Persons: 3
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 3
*******************************************
I don't know what became of the young Eliza George family, but they could be the family of David E. George, and there is a son 0-4 years old.

I went back for a look at the 1840 census image and I think that may be Eliga or Elija George, rather than Eliza George.

Steve · (This post was last modified: 07-22-2019 04:24 PM by Steve.)

If David E. George was born around 1844 he wouldn't be counted in the 1840 census. There's somebody who's name looks something like "Alvy George" living in Choctaw County, Mississippi slightly before and after 1840. Could this be the same person as Eliza/Elija?

Also wasn't the insurance policy a fake? If David E. George knew it was a fake, then the information in regards to George' birth might have to be Choctaw, Mississippi taken with "a grain of salt".

L Verge · 07-22-2019, 07:09 PM

(07-22-2019 04:23 PM)Steve Wrote: If David E. George was born around 1844 he wouldn't be counted in the 1840 census. There's somebody who's name looks something like "Alvy George" living in Choctaw County, Mississippi slightly before and after 1840. Could this be the same person as Eliza/Elija?

Also wasn't the insurance policy a fake? If David E. George knew it was a fake, then the information in regards to George' birth might have to be Choctaw, Mississippi taken with "a grain of salt".

The answers, or educated guesses, are likely in that laden file drawer at our Hall Center. Unfortunately, neither I nor my staff have time to look right now.

This is going to be a fun few weeks -- 50 participants in the International Airstream Rally will be visiting tomorrow, along with a crew from Maryland Public Television (not because of the bus tour) and Friday brings us 35 campers from the Russian Embassy - some of whom do not speak English.

Next week, we have 35 campers doing the regular tour plus a little side feature on how CW spies could utilize the Surratt home. A fellow museum (ca. 1750) a few miles from us has been doing a summer program called I Spy on how colonists used their wiles to spy on the British, so we are following up on that theme.

Just thought you'd like to know that we are staying busy - even though the temps this past week to ten days have been over 100. Museum folk know that rainy days and heat waves are good for business. We're offering free tours every Friday in August. Our posters read Cool House - Cool History. If the AC konks out, I'm retiring immediately. Yes, all buildings are air conditioned, and the historic house has the ducts hidden in the chimneys and fireplaces (every room except two have fireplaces).

Steve Whitlock · 07-22-2019, 07:32 PM

(07-22-2019 04:23 PM)Steve Wrote: If David E. George was born around 1844 he wouldn't be counted in the 1840 census. There's somebody who's name looks something like "Alvy George" living in Choctaw County, Mississippi slightly before and after 1840. Could this be the same person as Eliza/Elija?

Also wasn't the insurance policy a fake? If David E. George knew it was a fake, then the information in regards to George' birth might have to be Choctaw, Mississippi taken with "a grain of salt".

I realize David E. George would be born after 1840, if 1844 really his birth year. Supposedly, after checking the papers he had they determined he was b: abt 1838 (how convenient if trying to prove he was John Wilkes Booth). I don't know what papers those were that gave his birth year. If really 1844, and in Choctaw Co., MS then he has an older brother and the most likely family would be Alvey/Eliza/Elija George family. Where did you find Alvey George named?

So far that "grain of salt" is more like a block of salt. If we prove he is really David E. George, and b: 1844 then there are two more reasons he wasn't John Wilkes Booth, and that should, but won't, end it for that hoax. To the best of my knowledge nobody has proven conclusively who David E. George was. Still, no conclusive David Elihu George apparent anywhere in 1850-1870 census records. If that's his birth name we should find him at least in 1850-1860. I even tried David Smith, due to a supposed half-brother, George E. Smith, but nothing. I even tried John Booth, and there were a couple in MS born in the 1840's, but not likely to be David.

Steve · 07-22-2019, 09:21 PM

(07-22-2019 07:09 PM)L Verge Wrote: The answers, or educated guesses, are likely in that laden file drawer at our Hall Center. Unfortunately, neither I nor my staff have time to look right now.

I love solving a good mystery, if the mystery of George's identity can be solved. So, I'll email you about the George file sometime after Labor Day, when we both have more time.

All those spy oriented programs by both museums seem really fun and interesting!

Steve Whitlock · 07-22-2019, 09:43 PM

(07-22-2019 04:23 PM)Steve Wrote: If David E. George was born around 1844 he wouldn't be counted in the 1840 census. There's somebody who's name looks something like "Alvy George" living in Choctaw County, Mississippi slightly before and after 1840. Could this be the same person as Eliza/Elija?

Also wasn't the insurance policy a fake? If David E. George knew it was a fake, then the information in regards to George' birth might have to be Choctaw, Mississippi taken with "a grain of salt".

FM Steve, be of strong heart! I believe I've found the nephew, and probably the brother of David E. George, but I want to do a little more research. Yes, the nephew was a bank president in TX. I would like to find the will that named him "Willie" to see if those weren't tt instead of "ll". Plain and simple he's Whit George, full name James Whit George. You'll find him in Ellis Co., TX. He was born in Choctaw, MS. I have more, but give me a few minutes to check some stuff.

Steve · 07-23-2019, 02:01 AM

I wish you the best of luck trying to find David E. George that way. Last year I looked into James Whit George. His father was a physician named James Whitson George born around 1835 in Alabama. When I found James Whitson George in the 1850 census in Warsaw Alabama, he didn't have a younger brother named David (although he had a brother a couple of years younger named Samuel - who according to family trees online died in 1851, though I haven't been able to confirm that).

Steve Whitlock · (This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 12:00 PM by Steve Whitlock.)

(07-23-2019 02:01 AM)Steve Wrote: I wish you the best of luck trying to find David E. George that way. Last year I looked into James Whit George. His father was a physician named James Whitson George born around 1835 in Alabama. When I found James Whitson George in the 1850 census in Warsaw Alabama, he didn't have a younger brother named David (although he had a brother a couple of years younger named Samuel - who according to family trees online died in 1851, though I haven't been able to confirm that).

Yes, I may need a larger salt shaker; however, that's the family and Dr. James W. George wasn't in Choctaw Co., MS until after 1960, when he married Lisa Parks 25 Apr 1865 in Choctaw Co., MS.

Have you read the Joyce W. Sanders article about David E. George in the September 27, 1979 Star-Herald, Kosciusko, MS? She mentions a letter written by Cherry (George) Rankin, a daughter of Dr. James W. George.

" Dr. George was of an age to have been a brother of D. E. George. If, this is true, then Whit or Witty could have been the nephew mentioned in the will. A letter written on the subject to a reporter by Mrs. Rankin has preserved. It is illegible in part, but tends to lend credence to the belief that there is a connection between the two George men."

George E. Rainey identified the nephew as a half-nephew, and I'm trying to determine whether Samuel D. George (is that Samuel David George) really died in 1851. He appears to have been born in 1838, but would have been a full brother to James W. George. There is a William George b: abt 1843 AL who may be a half-brother, but I don't know for sure what became of him yet. We'll see, but I think this is the path George E. Rainey was on, and that Whit George was the half-nephew banker.

William B. George, the father of James Whitson George, and siblings, seems to have been married at least 3 times, his 1st wife being Nancy Cherry. She re-married in 1845 to a physician, Francis M. White. James and Samuel George were with her and Dr. White in the 1850 census, but James was with his father for the 1860 census. By then William B. George was on at least his 3rd wife. I have those census records if you want to see them, but you probably already have if you've been down this road a year ago.

Obviously, my 'few minutes' will be quite a few minutes. If you have a copy of the Cherry (George) Rankin letter I'd love to see it.

(07-23-2019 11:52 AM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:
(07-23-2019 02:01 AM)Steve Wrote: I wish you the best of luck trying to find David E. George that way. Last year I looked into James Whit George. His father was a physician named James Whitson George born around 1835 in Alabama. When I found James Whitson George in the 1850 census in Warsaw Alabama, he didn't have a younger brother named David (although he had a brother a couple of years younger named Samuel - who according to family trees online died in 1851, though I haven't been able to confirm that).

Yes, I may need a larger salt shaker; however, that's the family and Dr. James W. George wasn't in Choctaw Co., MS until after 1960, when he married Lisa Parks 25 Apr 1865 in Choctaw Co., MS.

Have you read the Joyce W. Sanders article about David E. George in the September 27, 1979 Star-Herald, Kosciusko, MS? She mentions a letter written by Cherry (George) Rankin, a daughter of Dr. James W. George.

" Dr. George was of an age to have been a brother of D. E. George. If, this is true, then Whit or Witty could have been the nephew mentioned in the will. A letter written on the subject to a reporter by Mrs. Rankin has preserved. It is illegible in part, but tends to lend credence to the belief that there is a connection between the two George men."

George E. Rainey identified the nephew as a half-nephew, and I'm trying to determine whether Samuel D. George (is that Samuel David George) really died in 1851. He appears to have been born in 1838, but would have been a full brother to James W. George. There is a William George b: abt 1843 AL who may be a half-brother, but I don't know for sure what became of him yet. We'll see, but I think this is the path George E. Rainey was on, and that Whit George was the half-nephew banker.

William B. George, the father of James Whitson George, and siblings, seems to have been married at least 3 times, his 1st wife being Nancy Cherry. She re-married in 1845 to a physician, Francis M. White. James and Samuel George were with her and Dr. White in the 1850 census, but James was with his father for the 1860 census. By then William B. George was on at least his 3rd wife. I have those census records if you want to see them, but you probably already have if you've been down this road a year ago.

Obviously, my 'few minutes' will be quite a few minutes. If you have a copy of the Cherry (George) Rankin letter I'd love to see it.

Oops! Dr James Whitson George m: Jennie "Jane" Collins. HIs son, James Whit George m: Ida Park. No Lisa Parks involved. That's just feathers, as in what has 4 legs, howls at the moon and is covered with feathers? It's a coyote. I just threw the feathers in to make it difficult.

Steve · 07-23-2019, 02:30 PM

There's something I forgot to mention in my last posting. There also appears to be an older brother of Dr. James Whitson George, a William Bailey George. William had a son name Whitson George who died in Washington County, Texas on 06 Oct. 1918.

Steve Whitlock · 07-23-2019, 02:43 PM

(07-23-2019 02:30 PM)Steve Wrote: There's something I forgot to mention in my last posting. There also appears to be an older brother of Dr. James Whitson George, a William Bailey George. William had a son name Whitson George who died in Washington County, Texas on 06 Oct. 1918.

William B. George m: Nancy R. Cherry in 1829, and James Whitson George wasn't born until Dec 1835, so the older brother must be William Bailey George [Jr?] if I have the correct 1840 census.

Nancy R. Cherry

in the Alabama, County Marriage Records, 1805-1967

Name: Nancy R. Cherry
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1829
Marriage Place: Greene, Alabama, USA
Spouse: William B. George
Film Number: 001290852
******************************
William George

in the 1840 United States Federal Census

Name: William George
Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Sumter, Alabama
Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 1 [Samuel D. George]
Free White Persons - Males - 5 thru 9: 2 [James W. George & William Bailey George]
Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 1 [William B. George]
Free White Persons - Females - Under 5: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 1 [Nancy R. (Cherry) George]
Free White Persons - Under 20: 4
Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 2
Total Free White Persons: 6
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 6
**********************************************

Steve · (This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 03:01 PM by Steve.)

My mistake again, it's William Bailey Washington George. He may be a cousin and not a brother since he was also born in 1835. In the 1860 census he's living in Washington Co. Texas with an older Mary E. George and two younger children Louisa and Joel. But William is missing from the family which is just Mary, Louisa, and Joel in Washington Co. Texas in the 1850 census.

I checked and Joel is living with his sister in Burleson, Texas during the 1900 census and cannot be David E. George.

Here's the FindAGrave memorial for the Whitson George who's the son of William Bailey Washington George:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47287928

Steve Whitlock · (This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 04:23 PM by Steve Whitlock.)

(07-23-2019 02:59 PM)Steve Wrote: My mistake again, it's William Bailey Washington George. He may be a cousin and not a brother since he was also born in 1835. In the 1860 census he's living in Washington Co. Texas with an older Mary E. George and two younger children Louisa and Joel. But William is missing from the family which is just Mary, Louisa, and Joel in Washington Co. Texas in the 1850 census.

I checked and Joel is living with his sister in Burleson, Texas during the 1900 census and cannot be David E. George.

Here's the FindAGrave memorial for the Whitson George who's the son of William Bailey Washington George:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47287928

According to his findagrave memorial in the same cemetery as Whitson George, WBW George was born in MS. Also, William B. George has another son named William H. George, b: abt 1841-43 depending on census. If the birth dates are correct for Dr James W. George and WBW George then they can't be brothers.

Dr J. W. George
Birth 6 Dec 1835
Death 17 Mar 1907 (aged 71)
Burial
Italy Cemetery
Italy, Ellis County, Texas, USA
Memorial ID 31816840 · View Source
*********************************
W B W George
Birth 14 Jun 1835
Mississippi, USA
Death 23 Oct 1891 (aged 56)
Burial
Washington Cemetery
Washington, Washington County, Texas, USA
Memorial ID 47287971 · View Source

Family Members
Children

Photo
Hardy George

1873–1885
Photo
Ernest George

1877–1879

Inscription

Born in Mississippi
***********************
Note the inscription for William Bailey Washington George, which is another reason he likely isn't the older brother of Dr J. W. George, unless one of the years is incorrect.

(07-23-2019 02:59 PM)Steve Wrote: My mistake again, it's William Bailey Washington George. He may be a cousin and not a brother since he was also born in 1835. In the 1860 census he's living in Washington Co. Texas with an older Mary E. George and two younger children Louisa and Joel. But William is missing from the family which is just Mary, Louisa, and Joel in Washington Co. Texas in the 1850 census.

I checked and Joel is living with his sister in Burleson, Texas during the 1900 census and cannot be David E. George.

Here's the FindAGrave memorial for the Whitson George who's the son of William Bailey Washington George:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47287928

WBW George is the son of Wilson "Wiley" and Mary A. George] He seems to have died before 1850, according to an 1858 petition for land in Washington Co., TX by his widow. She said that started for TX in 1841, but in 1850 her children show b: AL, but Bailey is not with them, and in 1860 all the children show born in MS, but Wiley was in AL for 1840 census. WBW George also had a brother near his age, according to the 1840 census.

Wiley George [Wilson "Wiley" H. George]

in the 1840 United States Federal Census

Name: Wiley George
Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Talladega, Alabama
Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 2 [WBW George & ??]
Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 1
Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 2
Persons Employed in Agriculture: 1
No. White Persons over 20 Who Cannot Read and Write: 3
Free White Persons - Under 20: 2
Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 3
Total Free White Persons: 5
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 5
********************************************
Mary E George

in the 1850 United States Federal Census

Name: Mary E George
Age: 41
Birth Year: abt 1809
Birthplace: Tennessee
Home in 1850: Washington, Texas, USA
Gender: Female
Family Number: 293
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary E George 41
Louisa George 13 [b: AL]
Joel George 10 [b: AL] [Where’s WBW George?]
*******************************************
Bailey George

in the 1860 United States Federal Census

Name: Bailey George
Age: 25
Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Mississippi
Home in 1860: Washington, Washington, Texas
Post Office: Washington
Dwelling Number: 453
Family Number: 453
Occupation: Farmer
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary George 45 [b: 1815 GA]
Bailey George 25 [b: MS]
Louisa George 18[b: MS]
Joel George 17[b: MS]
Mary Moroe 50
***********************
Mary A George

in the Texas, Memorials and Petitions, 1834-1929

Name: Mary A George [Widow of Wilson H. George]
Residence Date: 19 Mar 1858
Folder Title: Petition For Land
******************************
So, we still don't know who the other brother was for Dr. James Whitson George from the 1840 census of William B. George.

Steve · 07-23-2019, 05:23 PM

Great find in finding that land petition!

Steve · 07-23-2019, 07:57 PM

David E. George first appears, with certainty, in the historical record in the 14 April 1897 issue of the Evening Messenger newspaper of Marshall, Texas (in Harrison County) with a mention that "D. E. George of Dallas" had just began a stay at the Ginocchio Hotel the prior day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ginocchio

This may or may not be something, but I found a D. E. George living in Harrison County, Texas in an 1878 tax assessment. This is 19 years prior. Also, the Ginocchio was located next to a railway depot so David E. George could've just been staying there as rest stop or a place to get off the train looking for a job. Not to mention the 1878 D. E. George is just initials and it could just be a coincidence that they match. So far I haven't been able to link the tax record to a specific person yet.