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RJNorton · 07-19-2019, 09:05 AM

I found Blaine's words in the June 2007 Courier:

"The mechanism is essentially gasping in small amounts of air, then expelling it as sound. This would have been difficult for Booth and his words would not have been easily heard, particularly with the excitement of the capture and soldiers milling around, along with the noise of a fire burning in the background. Booth's voice was described as a whisper..."

Steve Whitlock · 07-19-2019, 03:04 PM

(07-18-2019 06:36 PM)L Verge Wrote:
(07-18-2019 04:08 PM)Steve Wrote: Too bad we don't know where the mummy is located exactly now. If we did, we could still measure its approximate size now.

I'm trying to respond to these posts while at home (where my personal books are out of reach) and am straining my aging memory. However, I believe that the accurate account (Rob Wick, where are you?) of Booth talking to his hands is that he asked to have his hands raised, and his request was granted. As for his ability to speak, James O. Hall explained that medically to us forty years ago, and it had something to do with him still having limited control of breathing.

Booth knew that the soldiers had identified him correctly, so he wasn't going to pretend any more. He was definitely his mother's favorite son, and he adored her, so it was very important to him that someone get word to her as to why he did what he did. Even dying, he still considered himself a hero by attempting to stave off the newly designed, central government and what ill effects it would have on the country.

As for the size of the Booth mummy, I believe that the article done in the 1930s, when the doctors examined and x-rayed the so-called Mr. George, contains such vital statistics. Fred Black, the newspaperman that Henry Ford trusted to investigate the mummy theory, was very thorough over an extended period of time. His work does a lot to dispel the mummy theory, as does the work of others over the years. Even at the 1995 exhumation trial, the Green Mount Cemetery team made the Bates book look like a fairy tale -- which, in many ways -- it is, imo.

I neglected to respond to the mention of the 1931 examination of the mummy.

From Wikipedia:

In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:
"[...]a scarred right eyebrow that arched upwards, a thickening on the knuckle joint of the right thumb, and a piece of skin missing from the back of the neck [...] X-rays of the head, hands, and legs showed a thickening of the tissues over the right eyebrow, a thickening in the bones of the right thumb, and a marked thickening of the left fibula at its lower end, indicating an earlier fracture."

The results were not conclusive nor widely accepted. The event was viewed as a publicity stunt, and the doctors did not examine other elements such as height and facial features. X-rays from this examination were later displayed with the body, which now had a large opening in its backside as a result.
********************
Above is the the reason I mentioned they didn't check his height, as stated in the article, "the doctors did not examine other elements such as height and facial features".

Steve · 07-19-2019, 03:17 PM

(07-19-2019 03:04 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: I neglected to respond to the mention of the 1931 examination of the mummy.

From Wikipedia:

In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:
"[...]a scarred right eyebrow that arched upwards, a thickening on the knuckle joint of the right thumb, and a piece of skin missing from the back of the neck [...] X-rays of the head, hands, and legs showed a thickening of the tissues over the right eyebrow, a thickening in the bones of the right thumb, and a marked thickening of the left fibula at its lower end, indicating an earlier fracture."

The results were not conclusive nor widely accepted. The event was viewed as a publicity stunt, and the doctors did not examine other elements such as height and facial features. X-rays from this examination were later displayed with the body, which now had a large opening in its backside as a result.
********************
Above is the the reason I mentioned they didn't check his height, as stated in the article, "the doctors did not examine other elements such as height and facial features".

It's just bizarre that they wouldn't measure the mummy's height, even if it was a publicity stunt. But I would expect nothing less from this farce. Poor Mr. George.

L Verge · 07-19-2019, 05:53 PM

Somewhere, I'm thinking that I have seen the height of 6'1" mentioned about the mummy. I'll drink some ginseng tea to see if that helps me remember!!

I also remember several inveterate Booth detectives from forty years ago trying to find any evidence that JWB had an injury to that thumb joint. I believe they found none for Johnny, but a mention of Junius the Elder having injured his in a stage rigging.

That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

Steve Whitlock · 07-19-2019, 06:35 PM

(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: Somewhere, I'm thinking that I have seen the height of 6'1" mentioned about the mummy. I'll drink some ginseng tea to see if that helps me remember!!

I also remember several inveterate Booth detectives from forty years ago trying to find any evidence that JWB had an injury to that thumb joint. I believe they found none for Johnny, but a mention of Junius the Elder having injured his in a stage rigging.

That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

If the mummy was 6' 1", and the wanted posters for JWB say he was 5' 8" tall obviously they can't be the same person, even beyond the many reasons we already know. The final reason I am seeking is definite proof in census records, etc as to exactly who David E. George was. George Rainey, a former postmaster in Enid, OK claimed that he was, in fact, David E. George, but didn't share a name for the granddaughter Mr Rainey communicated with in MS, nor a bank name in TX where nephew Willie George worked as a banker. I'm not seeing a banker Willie/William/Will* George in census records as a banker in TX. If George Rainey had proof he should have shared more information. I want to believe him; however, I haven't found a suitable David George in 1850-60 census records to fill the bill. I did notice that Oakland University in Detroit does have a folder for George Rainey, "Rainey, Geo. folder 9". There were letters exchanged between George Rainey and others concerning David E. George. None seems to have turned up online. At least I haven't found them.

Steve · 07-19-2019, 07:01 PM

I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 07:24 AM by Gene C.)

(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

The "spent the rest of his days wandering the earth" reminded me of this song, is this what you had in mind?
Poor Wayfaring Stranger sung by Jo Stafford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SjGxbjBak

Steve · 07-20-2019, 11:08 AM

(07-20-2019 06:58 AM)Gene C Wrote:
(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

The "spent the rest of his days wandering the earth" reminded me of this song, is this what you had in mind?
Poor Wayfaring Stranger sung by Jo Stafford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SjGxbjBak

Or maybe Coleridge's The Rime of the Ancient Mariner?

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 12:40 PM by L Verge.)

(07-20-2019 06:58 AM)Gene C Wrote:
(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

That works fine, and actually was/is a favorite of mine from the old days.
The "spent the rest of his days wandering the earth" reminded me of this song, is this what you had in mind?
Poor Wayfaring Stranger sung by Jo Stafford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SjGxbjBak

(07-19-2019 07:01 PM)Steve Wrote: I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

Too bad that we don't know the height of Dr. Orlando Scott, the lead doctor in that (what I consider) "staged" mummy exam in the 1930s. There is a very good photo of the doctor standing right beside the mummy, and they are the same height. The photo also reminded me that the mummy had perfectly formed legs below the knee, whereas Johnny had the nickname of "...Bowlegs" because of his noticeable characteristic.

Steve Whitlock · 07-20-2019, 02:29 PM

(07-20-2019 12:36 PM)L Verge Wrote:
(07-20-2019 06:58 AM)Gene C Wrote:
(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

That works fine, and actually was/is a favorite of mine from the old days.
The "spent the rest of his days wandering the earth" reminded me of this song, is this what you had in mind?
Poor Wayfaring Stranger sung by Jo Stafford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SjGxbjBak

(07-19-2019 07:01 PM)Steve Wrote: I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

Too bad that we don't know the height of Dr. Orlando Scott, the lead doctor in that (what I consider) "staged" mummy exam in the 1930s. There is a very good photo of the doctor standing right beside the mummy, and they are the same height. The photo also reminded me that the mummy had perfectly formed legs below the knee, whereas Johnny had the nickname of "...Bowlegs" because of his noticeable characteristic.

Dr Orlando Franke Scott was 5' 11" tall, according to his WWII Draft Reg. Card, back side.

"In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:"

Steve · (This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 02:39 PM by Steve.)

(07-20-2019 02:29 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: Dr Orlando Franke Scott was 5' 11" tall, according to his WWII Draft Reg. Card, back side.

"In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:"

That's about 3 inches taller than Booth.

So, it's no surprise then, why he didn't give the height of the mummy.

L Verge · 07-20-2019, 03:04 PM

(07-20-2019 02:29 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:
(07-20-2019 12:36 PM)L Verge Wrote:
(07-20-2019 06:58 AM)Gene C Wrote:
(07-19-2019 05:53 PM)L Verge Wrote: That gives us another "theory" to explore -- Junius did not die on board that ship; he jumped overboard and spent the rest of his days wandering the earth until dying in Enid, Oklahoma, at well over 100 years of age. The Junius body in Green Mount is actually a poor sailor who was returned to Mary Ann. And the mummy is not really a mummy - Junius was so old and so wrinkled by 1903 that the corpse looked like that naturally. My apologies to the deceased.

Hey, Gene -- how does that scenario sound to you, and does it remind you of any song that we can play as background music as we foist yet another fable on the unsuspecting public?

That works fine, and actually was/is a favorite of mine from the old days.
The "spent the rest of his days wandering the earth" reminded me of this song, is this what you had in mind?
Poor Wayfaring Stranger sung by Jo Stafford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SjGxbjBak

(07-19-2019 07:01 PM)Steve Wrote: I haven't found a copy of Black's Dearborn Independent article online, though it is mentioned elsewhere and apparently Black interviewed William J. Ryan who embalmed George and Ryan said George had blue or blue-gray eyes. Which is definitely a different eye color than that of the assassin John Wilkes Booth.

https://archive.org/details/inshadowofli...se/page/82

Too bad that we don't know the height of Dr. Orlando Scott, the lead doctor in that (what I consider) "staged" mummy exam in the 1930s. There is a very good photo of the doctor standing right beside the mummy, and they are the same height. The photo also reminded me that the mummy had perfectly formed legs below the knee, whereas Johnny had the nickname of "...Bowlegs" because of his noticeable characteristic.

Dr Orlando Franke Scott was 5' 11" tall, according to his WWII Draft Reg. Card, back side.

"In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:"

Great to know and thank you Steve W.

Steve · 07-20-2019, 03:23 PM

This book on 20th century mummies says that Francis Wilson was able to prove the tintype of John St. Helen was a fake:

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZMSSCg...22&f=false

Does anybody know about what the author is talking about, or if Wilson's claim has any validity?

Steve Whitlock · (This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 08:27 PM by Steve Whitlock.)

(07-20-2019 02:35 PM)Steve Wrote:
(07-20-2019 02:29 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: Dr Orlando Franke Scott was 5' 11" tall, according to his WWII Draft Reg. Card, back side.

"In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:"

That's about 3 inches taller than Booth.

So, it's no surprise then, why he didn't give the height of the mummy.

Not so fast! I'm not certain which photo you are looking at of Dr Scott and David E. George. I also can't verify that Dr Scott is the one with the mummy. Note that Dr Scott, if that's him, is wearing shoes, so he would be taller than 5' 11". Also we don't know if the mummy is completely upright, or how much height has been lost by somewhat decayed discs, etc. Given all that in the one photo the Dr is leaning off to the side and they appear to be the same height, but in the other photo just looking at the top of the heads to the top of the photo the Dr appears considerably taller than David E. George, which makes the results inconclusive for me.

(07-20-2019 07:50 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote:
(07-20-2019 02:35 PM)Steve Wrote:
(07-20-2019 02:29 PM)Steve Whitlock Wrote: Dr Orlando Franke Scott was 5' 11" tall, according to his WWII Draft Reg. Card, back side.

"In 1931, the Chicago Press Club hired six doctors led by Dr. Orlando Franke Scott (1885–1950) to examine the mummy:"

That's about 3 inches taller than Booth.

So, it's no surprise then, why he didn't give the height of the mummy.

Not so fast! I'm not certain which photo you are looking at of Dr Scott and David E. George. I also can't verify that Dr Scott is the one with the mummy. Note that Dr Scott, if that's him, is wearing shoes, so he would be taller than 5' 11". Also we don't know if the mummy is completely upright, or how much height has been lost by somewhat decayed discs, etc. Given all that in the one photo the Dr is leaning off to the side and they appear to be the same height, but in the other photo just looking at the top of the heads to the top of the photo the Dr appears considerably taller than David E. George, which makes the results inconclusive for me.

Yes, that is Dr Orlando Scott with the David E. George mummy. The attached photo of Dr Charles Fischer and Dr Orlando Scott proves that. I read some about the Egyptian mummification process and there was a mention that:

"A better idea of average height and life span comes from studying the bones. By learning their age at death, the order and dates of the Egyptian kings becomes a little clearer. Even ties of kinship in the royal line can be suggested by the striking similarities or dissimilarities in the skulls of pharaohs that followed one another. Dead now for thousands of years, the mummy continues to speak to us."

Of course, David E. George didn't go through the Egyptian process. The time to measure David E. George was shortly after his death. Since it was uncertain of what was to be done with his body I would expect the undertaker to have measured him for a casket, in anticipation of a local burial.

I have no idea how studying the bones gives an accurate analysis of a mummified person's height before death.

Steve · 07-21-2019, 01:40 AM

Honestly, I don't think you can really draw any conclusions about their relative heights. Dr. Scott kinda looks like he might be slightly taller than the mummy but you can't be sure by their relative positions in the photographs.