Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation Owes Big $$$

[J. Beckert]

I haven't been following this thread, but didn't the Taper hat have origins in the Forbes' collection?
I think I remember him buying it years ago for $100,000.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Jgbi4V...at&f=false

[RJNorton]

Joe, I do not think the hat which the ALPLM has was in the Forbes collection. William Waller, an Illinois farmer, said Lincoln gave him the hat. It remained in the Waller family until 1958 when a collector of Lincolniana named Jim Hickey bought it. Hickey then sold it to Louise Taper in 1990. In 2007 the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation acquired the hat from Louise Taper.

I think the hat in the Forbes collection is a different Lincoln hat. It's the one he wore to Ford's Theatre the night he was assassinated.

[Gene C]

This from the website of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation.

I would have chosen or changed to a different heading - http://underhishat.alplm.org/

Still, it's an interesting site, especially for teachers.

[Steve]

While this story doesn't have anything to do with the Lincoln collection, it's still a worrying article about some things going on at the ALPLM:

https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/extra/...32253.html

[L Verge]

(07-19-2019 02:36 PM)Steve Wrote:  While this story doesn't have anything to do with the Lincoln collection, it's still a worrying article about some things going on at the ALPLM:

https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/extra/...32253.html

Wow - could we surmise that this happens when HR hires administrators that have no connection to the history field, or interest therein? I'll bet that ALPLM hired on the basis of experience in fundraising, not historical knowledge.

Having just gone through the hiring process at Surratt House Museum, I was amazed at some of the 30+ applications that were filtered and sent to us (out of 450+ that applied!). I don't know what filter system their computers use, but we were asked to consider people who had not completed their applications, had no experience in museum or history fields, listed no special skills on their applications, and had lousy grammar, spelling, and sentence structure.

We (a panel of five) reduced the number to ten considerations and interviewed six. Our selection has museum and public history experience as well as having been a teacher. He starts with us in mid-August. Keep your fingers crossed that our instincts will pay off.

[RJNorton]

Financial hat trick means Lincoln foundation won’t have to auction off museum artifacts

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/12/4/2...ifacts-hat

[RJNorton]

New report casts more doubt that museum’s stovepipe hat belonged to Lincoln

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/12/24/...al-library

[Craig Hipkins]

(12-25-2019 11:01 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

New report casts more doubt that museum’s stovepipe hat belonged to Lincoln

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/12/24/...al-library

Interesting article Roger! It mentions that the hat was tested for DNA but doesn’t say when. Every day the technology is becoming more advanced so I imagine that one day they will be able to prove it one way or another.

[RJNorton]

Craig, I wonder what was the source of Lincoln's DNA that the hat was compared to. I remember when Dr. John Sotos was looking for samples of Lincoln's DNA in order to prove his theory of Lincoln having a rare cancer, but (as I recall) Sotos could never find sufficient amounts of Lincoln's blood stains to test. Also, regarding the hat size, I have always read that Lincoln's hat size was 7 1/8, so I do not think it's a good sign if the hat in question is size 7 1/4.

[Gene C]

Shove enough papers and documents into the inner hat brim, and I believe the larger size will fit fine.

[Craig Hipkins]

(12-26-2019 05:04 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Craig, I wonder what was the source of Lincoln's DNA that the hat was compared to. I remember when Dr. John Sotos was looking for samples of Lincoln's DNA in order to prove his theory of Lincoln having a rare cancer, but (as I recall) Sotos could never find sufficient amounts of Lincoln's blood stains to test. Also, regarding the hat size, I have always read that Lincoln's hat size was 7 1/8, so I do not think it's a good sign if the hat in question is size 7 1/4.

Good question Roger. The last known descendant was Lincoln Beckwith who died back in the 1970s. I was reading something the other day about detectives who were able to close a cold case murder by getting DNA from a glass that a suspect used at a bar.

[LincolnMan]

(12-26-2019 05:04 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Craig, I wonder what was the source of Lincoln's DNA that the hat was compared to. I remember when Dr. John Sotos was looking for samples of Lincoln's DNA in order to prove his theory of Lincoln having a rare cancer, but (as I recall) Sotos could never find sufficient amounts of Lincoln's blood stains to test. Also, regarding the hat size, I have always read that Lincoln's hat size was 7 1/8, so I do not think it's a good sign if the hat in question is size 7 1/4.

I remember that too Roger. Wasn’t the question whether or not Lincoln had Marfans?

[RJNorton]

You are on the right track, Bill, but it's not Marfans. Dr. Sotos believes that Lincoln suffered from a rare genetic cancer syndrome called MEN2B (multiple endocrine neoplasia, type 2B). Sotos claims that Lincoln did not have Marfan's syndrome, some of his boys and probably his mother also had MEN2B, and that the President had less than a year to live prior to the assassination.

[Gene C]

First, it was the hat. Now, it is a clock

Not sure how I missed this, but here are two articles about the clock from the Illinois Times, the first from Jan 23, 2020
titled Tick Tock by Bruce Rushton - https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfiel...d=11732118

and the second, a letter to the editor from Feb 6, 2020 by James Cornelius
https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfiel...d=11785547

I have never met Mr Rushton, but I have met James Cornelius.
I was favorably impressed by Mr. Cornelius. He was friendly, helpful, cheerful, knowledgeable, and pleasant to be around. He is welcome to join us on any of our Springfield tours. Pass it on!

* Unfortunately, these are links that will not stay around for long. If interested, make a copy while you can.

[RJNorton]

Gene, over the years I have had a few folks write me about the museum's bloody gloves, too. Here is what was said in a couple of emails from years ago:

"It was stated that when Lincoln was shot, his blood dripped all the way down his arm and into his left pocket, where the President had placed them, folded. I really must take issue with this explanation. Lincoln's wound did not drip blood at all. All the doctors observed and wrote that it merely oozed. We have to go along with them. So how did the blood get onto his gloves? I see only one possibility. In my humble opinion, either the gloves were not Lincoln's and they weren't in his pockets; they belonged to Major Rathbone, who bled heavily from his own wound. Or, they were, indeed, Lincoln's, but they were not in his pockets and came in contact with Rathbone's dripping blood."

"I've watched other ALPLM videos, but believe this one is pretty farfetched. I've researched for some time regarding whether Lincoln's death clothing had been tested for blood, and have never found any suggestion that it has. I've never learned of any statements that any blood stains were even seen on his clothing. Looking at the gloves superficially from the video (and from other images of them I've found) the museum's theory sounds like wishful thinking."

Here is a link to the museum's video on the gloves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSdANJr1oDU