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+--- Thread: Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation Owes Big $$$ (/thread-3719.html)
Lincoln Presidential Library Foundation Owes Big $$$ - Gene C - 05-11-2018 03:58 PM
Sad news.
This is what happens when you spend to much money for something you really, really want, and can't pay for it.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/11/lincolns-stovepipe-hat-and-bloody-gloves-may-be-on-block-as-foundation-struggles-with-millions-in-debt.html
This reminds me of a song. Sometimes You need a Real Good Feel Good Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5HCfQ_DdEE
Hat & Gloves - DanielC - 05-12-2018 02:29 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/11/lincolns-stovepipe-hat-and-bloody-gloves-may-be-on-block-as-foundation-struggles-with-millions-in-debt.html
(05-11-2018 03:58 PM)Gene C Wrote: Sad news.
This is what happens when you spend to much money for something you really, really want, and can't pay for it.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/11/lincolns-stovepipe-hat-and-bloody-gloves-may-be-on-block-as-foundation-struggles-with-millions-in-debt.html
This reminds me of a song. Sometimes You need a Real Good Feel Good Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5HCfQ_DdEE
I hope they can be preserved for all to see rather than ending up in a private collection.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - RJNorton - 05-13-2018 04:04 AM
Thanks to Richard Sloan for this comment:
"Someone knowledgeable about this sort of thing has told me that they aren’t looking to sell off any of the Lincoln-related “treasures,” but rather peripheral materials and items not relating to Lincoln and Booth."
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - davg2000 - 05-13-2018 09:03 AM
(05-13-2018 04:04 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Thanks to Richard Sloan for this comment:
"Someone knowledgeable about this sort of thing has told me that they aren’t looking to sell off any of the Lincoln-related “treasures,” but rather peripheral materials and items not relating to Lincoln and Booth."
This comment makes sense. What ALPLM would really like is for the State of Illinois to help out significantly with the $9.7 million debt. Perhaps it will. However, I do think that ALPLM will go forward on plans to sell some things not related to Lincoln. The name "Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library" can be confusing--ALPLM is really the state historical library, whose mission is "to collect, preserve, interpret, and promote the study of the life and times of Abraham Lincoln and Illinois history." Whatever the name of the body, they've been pursuing this dual mission since the 1890's and have acquired very many things not related to Lincoln, but indeed related to Illinois history. For example, it's the second part of the mission which justified ALPLM's acquisition awhile back of some letters written by Charles Manson. Manson lived in Peoria, IL, for a time, so he is part of Illinois history.
Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but I can't imagine the top hat or the gloves or any artifact related to Lincoln being sold.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - L Verge - 05-13-2018 10:21 AM
I wonder if there are any stipulations in the Deed of Gift or whatever that was made between Barry and Louise Taper at the time of the sale of their items that prevents any of that collection from being disposed of by ALPLM. I met the Tapers, courtesy of James O Hall many years ago - lovely people and very much attached to their collection.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - Steve - 05-15-2018 01:02 AM
Here's an update on the story:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-illinois-lincoln-foundation-marilyn-monroe-auction-20180511-story.html
They're going to auction off Marilyn Monroe memorabilia that also came with the collection before they have to start auctioning off the Lincoln stuff to make their loan payment in October 2019. Also doubts have been raised on whether Lincoln actually touched the stovepipe hat in the collection, but the article doesn't go into depth about that issue.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - RJNorton - 05-15-2018 03:52 AM
(05-15-2018 01:02 AM)Steve Wrote: Here's an update on the story:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-illinois-lincoln-foundation-marilyn-monroe-auction-20180511-story.html
They're going to auction off Marilyn Monroe memorabilia that also came with the collection before they have to start auctioning off the Lincoln stuff to make their loan payment in October 2019. Also doubts have been raised on whether Lincoln actually touched the stovepipe hat in the collection, but the article doesn't go into depth about that issue.
From the article in Steve's post:
"Springfield-area Rep. Sara Wojcicki Jimenez said she is trying to get her arms around the developing issue that is particularly important to the community where Lincoln lived and is buried. She said she is working on the possibility of getting state funding to help address the foundation’s financial crunch..."
The state of Illinois is already bankrupt and has the worst credit rating of any of the 50 states. IMO, it is highly doubtful they can look to state funding for help. Illinois is in real trouble financially.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - Donna McCreary - 05-15-2018 08:43 AM
When they mention "peripheral materials," I wonder if they will sell any of the items I have donated to them in the past. I had inherited a large collection of Lincoln postcards ranging in age from a few years to over 100 years. Dr. Cornelius was interested in the collection, so I donated it, and a few rare books, to the library.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - davg2000 - 05-18-2018 08:47 AM
Those interested in ALPLM's woes regarding the sale of Lincoln artifacts should read the article "Selling Lincoln" in the current Illinois Times: http://www.illinoistimes.com. (I don't know how to link directly to an article.)
Pure Illinois.
I think most people did believe that items from the Taper purchase would be transferred to ALPLM ownership (and Illinois ownership) as the debt was paid down. But, as the article points out, this hasn't happened. So now the Foundation--which doesn't "own" anything-- is selling off some of the stuff to keep the rest of the stuff. The only things which can be sold are items from the Taper purchase. But don't look for any of the really big items--Marilyn's dress notwithstanding--to go on the auction block.
Despite all of this, ALPLM itself is healthy, and it consistently attracts many patrons, most of whom have no idea of the above.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - L Verge - 05-18-2018 11:29 AM
Hopefully, this is the link to the entire article http://illinoistimes.com/article-19981-selling-lincoln.html What a mess!
Mention is being made of an appraiser who "authenticated" items in the Taper collection and cast doubt on the authenticity of the stovepipe hat. Does anyone know who that appraiser might have been -- and what were his objections to the provenance?
Thirty to forty years ago, there were three big Lincoln/Booth collectors vying against each other when items went up for auction: Barry and Louise Taper, Dr. John K. Lattimer, and Malcolm Forbes. I think Forbes was chiefly interested in Lincoln artifacts. I believe his sons inherited the collection, and I lost track of it. Much of Lattimer's holdings went up for auction years ago, and I know that there were some doubts about the provenance of some items. For some reason (mainly personal), I always thought that the Tapers were more careful in choosing their items.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - RJNorton - 05-18-2018 12:33 PM
(05-18-2018 11:29 AM)L Verge Wrote: Mention is being made of an appraiser who "authenticated" items in the Taper collection and cast doubt on the authenticity of the stovepipe hat. Does anyone know who that appraiser might have been -- and what were his objections to the provenance?
Laurie, please see this article:
http://illinoistimes.com/article-11177-buyer-beware.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Also, thanks to Laurie for sending this information:
$5 Friday
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RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - davg2000 - 05-18-2018 02:36 PM
I don't know the name of the appraiser, but I do remember that Dr. Cornelius was adamant that the hat was Lincoln's when the Chicago Tribune's article about the hat's perhaps shakey provenance appeared. At the time I heard him speak, his logic made sense. Of course, the other side to this is that Dr. Cornelius might not be seen as objective in this matter.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - L Verge - 05-18-2018 03:45 PM
Has anyone calculated how many stovepipe hats Lincoln had during his career? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/abraham-lincolns-top-hat-the-inside-story-3764960/
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - Donna McCreary - 05-18-2018 03:58 PM
(05-18-2018 03:45 PM)L Verge Wrote: Has anyone calculated how many stovepipe hats Lincoln had during his career? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/abraham-lincolns-top-hat-the-inside-story-3764960/
I would guess a minimum of two per year was purchased. Lincoln would have needed one for spring/summer wear and one for fall/winter weather. Perhaps another was needed for Sunday dress. Because of the dirt that clung to clothing during travel, and because hat were not easily cleaned, a businessman needed clean head wear and would purchase new hats frequently. Of course, Lincoln also wear hats other than the stovepipe. It is doubtful he wore one during a horse back ride, but rather carried one with him for business attire.
In Washington, he would have purchased more than two per year, and probably received several as gifts.
It would be impossible to calculate exactly how many stovepipe hats sat on Lincoln's head.
RE: Lincoln Presidential Library Owes Big $$$ - LincolnMan - 05-18-2018 07:40 PM
Maybe this has already been asked/discussed: how many Lincoln hats in total are there in various museums?