Who Said This?

[Dave Taylor]

(05-15-2023 05:33 AM)Steve Wrote:  

(05-14-2023 09:36 PM)Dave Taylor Wrote:  I stumbled across this 1921 article in a San Antonio newspaper while looking to see if there were any assassination related things in San Antonio.

Dave, have you considered looking into the murder of Ben Thompson in 1884 in San Antonio? Supposedly, David E. George of "Booth mummy" fame claimed to have been involved in his murder as well. Although the description of what George said happened (according to Oklahoma newspaper reports written after George's death) don't seem to match the details of Thompson's murder.

Steve,

I remember having looked into that as well when I first moved to Texas. Like you, however, I found that the story attributed to George doesn't fit the known facts of Thompson's murder. I just assumed this was another example of exaggeration or outright lies relating to George.

[Steve]

(05-15-2023 03:48 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  No googling please. This quote comes from a book of historical fiction, but I have no reason to not believe it's essentially true.

Whose words are these?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"I am sorry for your distress, but I must tell you, darling, how paltry a thing Willie Lincoln's death looks from here. I do not underestimate the Pres.'s woe, but the national fuss: is it seemly? It is as if a dauphin had died. Mother sends me a cutting from the Star: Lying in state in the Green Room? Before a funeral in the East one? Children die each day in the normal order of things: think of the ones my mother lost, infants, more than twenty years ago. The President's grief for his son is ill-proportioned to the merely abstract sorrow he can feel at reports of grown men dying in quantity, just across the river from Washington. Madame Presi- dent should come downstairs and get out to the hospitals, so that she can see all the boys, older than her Willie, but still boys for all that, dying far from their own mothers' comfort- ing arms."

Emilie Todd Helm? The wording/background context of this fictional quote seems like it might come from a letter written by one of Mary's half-sisters.

[RJNorton]

That is a thoughtful, logical guess, Steve, but the quote comes from a male.

[Steve]

(05-15-2023 08:32 AM)Dave Taylor Wrote:  Steve,

I remember having looked into that as well when I first moved to Texas. Like you, however, I found that the story attributed to George doesn't fit the known facts of Thompson's murder. I just assumed this was another example of exaggeration or outright lies relating to George.

Personally, I suspect certain Enid, OK area people who wanted to somehow make money off of George's death (after they realized they had been duped into giving George drinking money with nonexistent life insurance policies and inheritance) concocted the story of George claiming to be Booth based off of their reminisces' of George's claims of being involved with Thompson's murder.

[Steve]

Hmm... a man close to the household, critical of Mary, and who's mother is still alive in 1862. John Hay?

[RJNorton]

Nope. The letter was written by a soldier stationed at Fort Monroe. The date of the letter is March 29, 1862. Who was this soldier?

[RJNorton]

Hint #1: He has been mentioned many times on this forum.

[Steve]

(05-16-2023 07:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Nope. The letter was written by a soldier stationed at Fort Monroe. The date of the letter is March 29, 1862. Who was this soldier?

Definitely, Gen. George B. McClellan

[AussieMick]

ahhh ,,, I was going to say that ,Steve. It was a bit obvious ( which means it may be wrong of course).

[RJNorton]

(05-16-2023 06:01 PM)AussieMick Wrote:  ahhh ,,, I was going to say that ,Steve. It was a bit obvious ( which means it may be wrong of course).

RE: "( which means it may be wrong of course)."

You are correct, Michael. It is indeed wrong. Sorry, Steve.

[Steve]

Benjamin Butler?

[RJNorton]

I think I will give the answer as I feel I may not have asked a fair question. Please forgive. The answer comes from p. 134 of Henry Mallon's Henry and Clara. The words were allegedly written by Henry Rathbone in a letter to Clara Harris written March 29, 1862. Mallon's book is historical fiction. At the end of the book Mallon writes, "Nearly all the extracts from letters and journals that appear in the text are made up, but in places quotations from actual material are included. So did Mallon make up Rathbone's words or did he use actual material? I do not know with absolute certainty. Because of all the research Mallon did for this book, I think these were most likely Rathbone's real feelings. I tend to doubt Mallon made it up from scratch as I am thinking Mallon must have learned of Rathbone's feelings toward Willie Lincoln's death somewhere in the literature he studied in preparation for writing his book.

[Rob Wick]

Roger,

I wrote to Thomas Mallon on his website asking about the passage, and I just received the following:

Dear Mr. Wick,

Those words are from a fictitious letter that Henry sends to Clara from Fort Monroe in March of 1862. His sentiments here are my invention, part of what I imagine to be a growing dislike of Lincoln. While there is a good deal that's factual in Henry and Clara, it's very much a novel, and the personalities and motivations of the characters are mostly my own inventions; inferences from the often scant historical record of their lives.

I made up many of the letters and diary entries in the novel, though some extracts from the correspondence of Ira Harris and William Hamilton Harris are actual quotations. The "Dear Mary" letter that Clara sends at the the beginning of Part Three, right after the assassination, is an actual document held by the New-York Historical Society, though when I saw it more than thirty years ago, the archivists there did not know who "Mary" actually was. And since they didn't, I invented the character of "Mary Hall."

I hope that this description of the slippery methods of historical fiction is of some small use.

Thanks for your interest in my work--

With best wishes,

Thomas Mallon

[RJNorton]

Thank you very much, Rob.

I actually used that paragraph for personal reasons. I think most folks who read assassination books come away thinking Rathbone was a Lincoln supporter because he had accompanied Clara Harris and the Lincolns to Ford's Theatre. But, down deep, I have felt just the opposite. My personal feeling is that Rathbone wasn't really a Lincoln fan, and he primarily went to Ford's at Clara's (and maybe Mary Lincoln's) request, and not really as a show of support for Lincoln. Just my opinion.

Thanks again, Rob!

[RJNorton]

Who said that Abraham Lincoln told him the following:

"You know better than any man living that from my boyhood up my ambition was to be President."