Decapitation of the Union

[John Fazio]

Laurie. Herb. Eva, Wild Bill, et al.:

The reason you have not heard from me is that I have been abroad for ten days and just returned late last night. We went to the Italian lakes (Lugano, Como, Maggiore and Garda). They are beautiful, bountiful, peaceful and Hemingwayesque. The great American writer was there as a young ambulance driver during WWI and left his mark. One floor of a hotel on Maggiore is devoted entirely to him. A Farewell to Arms, which is loosely autobiographical and is descriptive of the area and the war, was made into a movie twice, once with Gary Cooper and, I believe, Helen Hayes (possibly Irene Dunn) in the title roles and the second time with Rock Hudson and Jennifer Jones. He wrote the book, one of the world's great love stories, in Key West when he was about 28. Compared to that kind of genius, I am a babe in the woods.

Thank you very much for your comments about "Decapitation"; I greatly appreciate them. Yes, the reviews (Amazon and others) have been quite good, but whether that translates into book sales remains to be seen. ("Amazon Customer", whoever that is, said he/she thought it was "the best book on the Civil War currently on the market". That's quite an accolade. Even I am not sure it is that good, but I will not argue the point. Commentary pro and con is welcome. If anything noteworthy comes along outside this thread, I will pass it along.

John

[HerbS]

I have been to Italy and loved it John! I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Rochester,NY and I was the only German there! Good times had by all!

[John Fazio]

(09-20-2015 06:21 AM)HerbS Wrote:  I have been to Italy and loved it John! I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Rochester,NY and I was the only German there! Good times had by all!

Herb:

Thanks. And thank God the war is 70 years old-- old enough for everything to be forgiven. Half the tourists are German and half of these bring their dogs with them, a good opening for conversation. Guess what? This will really shock you! They are just like everyone else! I am convinced that war is a form of insanity.

John

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(09-19-2015 10:59 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  While I don't agree with all conclusions I, too, say kudos to the research and appreciate the elaborate compilation and wealth of sources and thoughts on all topics/keywords assassination.

Eva:

Your last message did not come through. Please give it another go.

John

[Wild Bill]

Wasn't some or all of this area once Austrian? They lost some of it fighting Napoleon and the rest by Italy's changing sides to the Allies in WWI?

He knows not war who has not fought the Germans--British army saying

[Eva Elisabeth]

(09-20-2015 06:27 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-20-2015 06:21 AM)HerbS Wrote:  I have been to Italy and loved it John! I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Rochester,NY and I was the only German there! Good times had by all!

Herb:

Thanks. And thank God the war is 70 years old-- old enough for everything to be forgiven. Half the tourists are German and half of these bring their dogs with them, a good opening for conversation. Guess what? This will really shock you! They are just like everyone else! I am convinced that war is a form of insanity.

John

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(09-19-2015 10:59 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  While I don't agree with all conclusions I, too, say kudos to the research and appreciate the elaborate compilation and wealth of sources and thoughts on all topics/keywords assassination.

Eva:

Your last message did not come through. Please give it another go.

John

John - Since the book this is "chaptered" in topics and questions, like the forum, one can find all important accounts, evidence, arguments etc. to consider on a specific/unsolved question neatly and thoroughly compiled. (Do I make sense?)

70 years - that is the longest period of peace in "core" Europe ever in written history!

PS: I am not sure what it means to be just like everyone else - is that positive or negative (as for me)? And why is it shocking to the everyones?

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(09-20-2015 11:44 AM)Wild Bill Wrote:  Wasn't some or all of this area once Austrian?

The northern tip of Lake Garda (Gardasee) until 1918.

[John Fazio]

(09-20-2015 01:19 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(09-20-2015 06:27 AM)John Fazio Wrote:  

(09-20-2015 06:21 AM)HerbS Wrote:  I have been to Italy and loved it John! I grew up in an Italian neighborhood in Rochester,NY and I was the only German there! Good times had by all!

Herb:

Thanks. And thank God the war is 70 years old-- old enough for everything to be forgiven. Half the tourists are German and half of these bring their dogs with them, a good opening for conversation. Guess what? This will really shock you! They are just like everyone else! I am convinced that war is a form of insanity.

John

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(09-19-2015 10:59 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  While I don't agree with all conclusions I, too, say kudos to the research and appreciate the elaborate compilation and wealth of sources and thoughts on all topics/keywords assassination.

Eva:

Your last message did not come through. Please give it another go.

John

John - Since the book this is "chaptered" in topics and questions, like the forum, one can find all important accounts, evidence, arguments etc. to consider on a specific/unsolved question neatly and thoroughly compiled. (Do I make sense?)

70 years - that is the longest period of peace in "core" Europe ever in written history!

PS: I am not sure what it means to be just like everyone else - is that positive or negative (as for me)? And why is it shocking to the everyones?

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(09-20-2015 11:44 AM)Wild Bill Wrote:  Wasn't some or all of this area once Austrian?

The northern tip of Lake Garda (Gardasee) until 1918.

Eva:

In answer to "Do I make sense", I would say "I think so, if you are saying what I think you are saying".

Your comment about 70 years being the longest period of peace in core European history is well taken. I don't know European history well enough--even the last 2,000 years--to affirm the statement absolutely, but my sense is that it is true, and this despite the Balkan conflicts of the 90's and the conflict in the Ukraine. Call it the Pax Americana, which began in 1945 with the replacement of dictatorships in Italy, Germany and Japan with democracies. In Italy the process actually began in 1943 when the Bagdolio government replaced Mussolini, with the help of the Allied armies and the Italian partisans. The latter were very instrumental in driving the Nazis from Italy. They were also very instrumental in saving Jews. Italy lost about 8,000 Jews to the Nazis, but saved about 85,000.

When I said (to Herb) that it would shock him, I was being facetious. I'm sure he understood that.The beginning of wisdom begins with the recognition of the universality of human nature and the distinction between human behavior, which changes according to circumstance, experience, tradition, climate, geography, etc., and human nature, which is immutable. These two basic truths, from which all other truths flow, are neither positive nor negative; they just are.

John

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(09-20-2015 11:44 AM)Wild Bill Wrote:  Wasn't some or all of this area once Austrian? They lost some of it fighting Napoleon and the rest by Italy's changing sides to the Allies in WWI?

He knows not war who has not fought the Germans--British army saying

Wild Bill:

Yes, much of northern Italy was Austrian, particularly the Tyrol, the area around Trento and Bolzano, before WWI. All of the "White War" between Italy and the Austro -Hungarian Empire was fought on land claimed by both countries, along the Isonzo and Piave Rivers. After terrible losses on both sides, Italy finally prevailed with two major victories under General Armando Diaz--the battles of the Piave River and Vittorio Veneto. Diaz had replaced General Cadorno, who was sacked after the defeat at Caporetto. Interestingly, the defeat of the Austro-Hungarians was so decisive that Generals Ludendorff and von Hindenberg were persuaded that it was time to throw in the towel on the western front, thus ending the war. In the Tyrol, most of the people speak both Italian and German and many of the signs, both business and official, are in German. When we were on Maggiore, we ran into a group of Italians who were wearing lederhose and playing oompah music. I asked them if they were from Germany. They said "no", they were from Trento and Bolzano, i.e. Italians of German (or Austrian) ancestry. I realize this information has nothing to do with the Civil War, but I thought I would pass it along anyway. We'll get back to the war soon enough.

The British Army saying is obviously born of experience. The Germans have always fought very well. Arminius (the Germans call him Herman) even defeated the Roman legions under Varus in A.D. 9, thereby assuring that Germany, alone among the western European countries, and some eastern European ones too, would never be Romanized. Her language has no Latin in it.

John

[Eva Elisabeth]

John - then you should please think positive and of appreciation (I hope at least this came through). I'm sorry I don't get it worded more comprehensively.

Re: "Her language has no Latin in it" - the Latin did thoroughly invade the German(ic) language just some years later when Germanicus came, and German has had Latin in it since. Anyway both languages have one origin - Indogermanic. (Maybe I misunderstood the statement?)

[Rogerm]

I believe that what Eva is referring to as "Indo-Germanic" is actually called "Indo-European."

[Eva Elisabeth]

I translated literally from German (and in German the terminus technicus is "Indogermanisch"...) However, of course, in those days, the Romans and Germans didn't know of the linguistic relationship.

[John Fazio]

(09-20-2015 05:01 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  John - then you should please think positive and of appreciation (I hope at least this came through). I'm sorry I don't get it worded more comprehensively.

Re: "Her language has no Latin in it" - the Latin did thoroughly invade the German(ic) language just some years later when Germanicus came, and German has had Latin in it since. Anyway both languages have one origin - Indogermanic. (Maybe I misunderstood the statement?)

Eva:

My understanding is that Germanicus scored some victories over Arminius's tribe and other German tribes shortly after Varus's defeat, but that he did not conquer what was referred to as Greater Germany. This was largely because he was recalled to Rome by Tiberius, who then sent him to the East, possibly because he was jealous of his popularity and growing power. As a result, the Rhine became the border of the Empire in the North, pursuant to Augustus's express instruction. I have some knowledge of German and find it to be all but devoid of Latin roots, unlike all the romance languages and English, half of which has Latin roots by virtue of the Norman Conquest. I welcome correction of any of this.

John

[Eva Elisabeth]

John - re: "...and find it [German] to be all but devoid of Latin roots..."

??? My humble knowledge of English would comprehend "all but devoid" as to mean the same as "full of" ("alles andere als frei von" = "voll mit", or: minus minus = plus). In this case this would oppose your former statement that German has no Latin in it.

While of the non-Romance languages English certainly has the most Latin loanwords (and English has more words than German at all*, less extensive grammar instead - in a sum, all languages are equally difficult to acquire), the German language has "incorporated" plenty either. I just have to look out of the Fenster (from Latin "fenestra") to be reminded of my favorite example where the English term ("window"), unlike the German, roots in the old Scandinavian languages, i. e. in Old Norse "vindauga" ("wind eye"), as the chilly northern wind used to blow thorough the glassless holes.

As for German, I couldn't find reliable information on the exact %age of Latin derrivates, but here's a word list which I doubt to be complete:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_la..._Deutschen
(I've already noticed a very essential one missing: "Schule" = "school", from Latin "schola"...)
* The OED currently estimates a total of 620,000 words in the English language, the Duden (German main dictionary) between 300,000 and 500,000 words in German. The French "Grand Robert" counts 100,000 French words - maybe an effort of the Toubon Law and the executive [next word misssing in the Wiki list: "Exekutive"] Académie Française:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law

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PS: One example for the common overall origin:

surgery = "Chirurgie" in German, = "chirurgia" in Latin.

All trace back to the Greek word "Chier" = hand [while
the Latin for "hand" = "manus"] as it describes a handicraft treatment: cutting, sewing etc.

Many medical expressions in both languages actually are Greek, and often the Latin term is used, too.

The chemical concept of chirality (German "Chiralität") has the same origin - actually a very illustrative term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_(chemistry)

[HerbS]

John,I agree,war is hell!

[Eva Elisabeth]

John, since I am really confused by your statement you find German to be "all but devoid of Latin roots" while declaring "it has no Latin in it" I'd appreciate a reply as for clarification and whether my latest post was at least a welcome correction of of the latter ("has no Latin in it") claim. I, too, appreciate any correction/education, and wonder if I misunderstood your words. Many thanks!

[John Fazio]

(09-21-2015 12:32 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  John, since I am really confused by your statement you find German to be "all but devoid of Latin roots" while declaring "it has no Latin in it" I'd appreciate a reply as for clarification and whether my latest post was at least a welcome correction of of the latter ("has no Latin in it") claim. I, too, appreciate any correction/education, and wonder if I misunderstood your words. Many thanks!

Eva:

Sorry for not responding sooner, but today has been one of those days. If you have ever been out of the country for 10 days, you will know what one has to do to catch up and get re-oriented, which is what I did today. I am now going to relax with a cocktail and get through some more newspapers, after which I will respond to your message with alacrity.

John

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks in advance. Meanwhile I have realized I confused "all but" with "anything but". (Well, while my German is all but perfect, my English is anything but that.)