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+--- Thread: Decapitation of the Union (/thread-2349.html)
Decapitation of the Union - L Verge - 04-06-2015 08:33 PM
John Fazio's book on the Decapitation of the Union arrived at Surratt House's gift shop on Friday. My stack of books to read keeps getting taller and taller. I may have to resort to throwing them all down the stairs and picking the one that is closest to the bottom!
When I first met John about 3-4 years ago, he was researching along the lines of Come Retribution. We'll wait and see what his final conclusions are.
RE: Decapitation of the Union - Thomas Thorne - 04-06-2015 11:55 PM
John Fazio gave a few of us a sneak preview at the conference. We will among other things be revisiting Sgt Cobb and associates at the bridge. Intriguing material.
Tom
RE: Decapitation of the Union - L Verge - 04-10-2015 01:07 PM
My #1 project for this weekend is to finish the last few chapters of Fortune's Fool and then move on to John Fazio's Decapitating the Union. I may also be starting a self-experiment to find out exactly how much Lincoln assassination material one person can immerse themselves in before their brain explodes!
John Fazio's new book! - HerbS - 05-02-2015 12:11 PM
John,the only problem with getting your book from Amazon is that I didn't get a signed copy!Your book is tremendous.I could not put it down.It truely does fill the gap in the assassination theory!
RE: Decapitation of the Union - Eva Elisabeth - 06-18-2015 05:51 PM
Just started reading this, i.e. Joan's foreword, and I'm looking forward to read Mr. Fazio's argumentation as for that/why "Booth never intended to kidnap Lincoln," as I have always found it difficult to believe he intended to "only" kidnap. (To me this simply didn't match Booth's personality.)
RE: John Fazio's new book! - John Fazio - 06-20-2015 10:25 AM
(05-02-2015 12:11 PM)HerbS Wrote: John,the only problem with getting your book from Amazon is that I didn't get a signed copy!Your book is tremendous.I could not put it down.It truely does fill the gap in the assassination theory!
Herb:
Thanks. Please send me the book (3422 S. Smith Rd., Fairlawn, OH 44333). I will sign it and send it back to you, all at my expense.
John
(06-18-2015 05:51 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: Just started reading this, i.e. Joan's foreword, and I'm looking forward to read Mr. Fazio's argumentation as for that/why "Booth never intended to kidnap Lincoln," as I have always found it difficult to believe he intended to "only" kidnap. (To me this simply didn't match Booth's personality.)
Eva:
I will be interested in your views re Chapter 12 of the book (Kidnapping). I had twice as much material on the subject, all of it in my opinion good, but publishers told me to reduce it by half, so I did. I am as convinced that Booth never really intended to kidnap anyone as I am about anything else in the history of the events of April 14. Just as he used the "oil business" to conceal his and his co-conspirators' sources of funds, he used kidnapping to conceal his true purpose of multiple assassinations, thereby facilitating his recruitment of co-conspirators, almost certainly instructed to do so by the Confederate Secret Service.
John
RE: Decapitation of the Union - HerbS - 06-20-2015 10:55 AM
Thanks John,no need for you to do that! It was a very nice jesture on your part!
RE: John Fazio's new book! - STS Lincolnite - 06-29-2015 07:05 PM
(06-20-2015 10:25 AM)John Fazio Wrote: I am as convinced that Booth never really intended to kidnap anyone as I am about anything else in the history of the events of April 14.
John,
In your feeling that Booth's intention was to kill from the start, do you think that the rest of the conspirators really believed that kidnapping was indeed the goal or were they in on the cover story.
RE: John Fazio's new book! - John Fazio - 06-30-2015 05:41 AM
(06-29-2015 07:05 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:(06-20-2015 10:25 AM)John Fazio Wrote: I am as convinced that Booth never really intended to kidnap anyone as I am about anything else in the history of the events of April 14.
John,
In your feeling that Booth's intention was to kill from the start, do you think that the rest of the conspirators really believed that kidnapping was indeed the goal or were they in on the cover story.
STS Lincolnite:
Sorry for not responding sooner; For some reason am not receiving email messages of questions and comments. Your question was brought to my attention by another contributor.
I believe strongly that some knew, some didn't. The inner circle of Surratt and Powell certainly knew what Booth's true purpose was. Surratt was in regular contact with Benjamin, the mastermind of the year of terror. He probably made an attempt on Lincoln's life at City Point in March, 1865. He joined Booth's conspiracy in November, 1864, certainly no later than December. By then there was no doubt of Booth's real purpose. He could not possibly have joined without Richmond's approval. Richmond had no interest in kidnapping. Powell joined in March. He had been to Canada in 1864. In Canada the Secret Service operatives spoke only of assassination. He was also in regular contact with rich and powerful men in Baltimore who lived in palatial homes and who kept him in funds.
Arnold knew nothing of assassination. He pulled out of the conspiracy and spent the last 12 days preceding the assassination in Old Point Comfort working at a new job. He wrote in his Memoirs: "Of course I know nothing of the assassination plot. The kidnapping was of such a quixotic nature that there is nothing in it..." O'Laughlen and Arnold were almost inseparable, but unlike Arnold, he was with Booth at the end, probably was at Stanton's home the night of the 13th and may even have had a hand in the attempt on Stanton on the 14th, but there is no proof. The great likelihood is that he was ignorant of Booth's true purpose until near the end. Atzerodt, for the most part, was kept in the dark until the end, but there is good evidence that he suspected the truth. Remarks he made to Weichmann and Fletcher, as well as his Confession of May 1, 1865, are suggestive of it. Herold most likely knew the truth. He too had been to Canada. Booth was his surrogate father, replacing his real father who had recently died. He was with Booth till the very end. He bragged about being "the assassinators" of Lincoln. Mrs. Surratt had surely picked up the truth by osmosis, from all the activity at her boarding house, even if she was not expressly informed of it until near the end. By March and April, she had to know what her "Pet" had in mind. Dr. Mudd most likely knew in late 1864, when he met Booth. Neither the doctor nor any other Confederate leader was so stupid as to believe that kidnapping could have done the Confederacy any good. Davis and Conrad are on record as having said so.
It is likely that Harbin, Conrad, Stringfellow, Parr, Ficklin, Jones, Slater, the Canadian Cabinet and many Copperheads, such as August Belmont and even George McClellan, knew what was coming. It probably explains why Belmont and McClellan left the country and were in Europe when the assassination occurred.
I hope this helps.
John
RE: Decapitation of the Union - Rogerm - 06-30-2015 09:50 AM
The idea that George McClellan knew anything about this in advance is new to me. When did he return to the US? Were there people back then who wanted to accuse him of complicity in Lincoln's assassination?
RE: Decapitation of the Union - L Verge - 06-30-2015 11:20 AM
(06-30-2015 09:50 AM)Rogerm Wrote: The idea that George McClellan knew anything about this in advance is new to me. When did he return to the US? Were there people back then who wanted to accuse him of complicity in Lincoln's assassination?
McClellan left right at the war's end and didn't return until 1868. If (and that's a big assumption) he knew about the plot, how did he dare handle it during the Presidential campaign that he was waging while Booth was enlisting his cohorts in 1864?
I am also trying to figure out the source for Herold ever going to Canada. My book is at home, and I'm at work - and I don't want to damage any one of them in the gift shop.
I have to ask this, John...Have you read and been influenced by Rick Stelnick's Dixie Reckoning in any way?
RE: Decapitation of the Union - John Fazio - 06-30-2015 04:07 PM
Roger and Laurie:
Thank you for your input.
Let me emphasize that I did not state, nor would I state, with any degree of certainty, that McClellan knew about the assassination in advance, but there are a couple of items that suggest the same. We know he was very hostile to Lincoln, that he had had much difficulty with Lincoln, Stanton, Halleck, et al., when he was in command, as to the conduct of the war, that he had led the political opposition against Lincoln and been defeated by him in the election (an election that many felt (probably he among them) was unfairly won), and that he continued his opposition to the Administration following the election. Add to that the fact that, according to Charles Higham, Ward Hill Lamon (Lincoln's best friend and self-appointed bodyguard) told Allan Pinkerton, on October 24, 1864, that there was a plan afoot to eliminate Lincoln, Stanton and Seward, which plan involved McClellan, his aide Edward H. Wright, August Belmont and Fernando Wood, among others. Add to that the fact that McClellan attended a meeting at August Belmont's Fifth Avenue mansion in New York City in November, 1864, whose guest list included, besides Belmont, the Mayor of New York (Wood), well known Copperheads Charles A. Haswell and Jeremiah Larocque, and John Wilkes Booth, this according to a report sent to Stanton in May, 1865, which report is accepted as authentic by David Black, Belmont's biographer. The report receives corroboration from testimony given by Weichmann at the trial of John Surratt. Add to all this the fact that McClellan and Wood left for Europe in early April, joining Belmont, who had been there since January, and Little Mac begins to take on an odor. (See Higham, pp. 135-138.) As to how he managed a campaign for the presidency if he was involved in an assassination plot, there is nothing to indicate when he became involved, if he became involved; it could have been after the election.
Herold in Canada? It is not stated with certainty, but the evidence comes from the testimony of James B. Merritt at the trial of the conspirators. He said "I think I saw the prisoner, D. E.. Herold, in Canada." (See Pitman, p. 35)
Have I been influenced by "Dixie Reckoning"? No; I never read it. Should I?
I hope this helps.
John
RE: Decapitation of the Union - HerbS - 06-30-2015 04:26 PM
What can be proved by reading"Dixie Reckoning" anyway?
RE: Decapitation of the Union - L Verge - 06-30-2015 04:30 PM
Rick Stelnick (god rest his soul) caused me many a sleepless night about five or six years ago, but yes, I think you should check out Dixie Reckoning. While he and I had different views on a variety of things, I can truthfully say that I don't think all of his work should be trashed. You and he remind me a lot of each other - especially now that you are bringing in the New York money and the Peace Democrats.
We are on the same page as far as Fernando Wood is concerned, however. I have asked so many people what they think of him - and never gotten an answer. He and that Texas Senator or (Congressman?) who hung around the halls of Congress for so long as a Confederate before resigning his seat (can't think of the name) have always bugged me.
As for Herold, I'm not sure he ever made it to St. Mary's County, Maryland, let alone Canada. You cite Dr. James B. Merritt as placing Herold in Canada, but I thought that Dr. Merritt was one of the "gentlemen" who, along with Charles Dunham (aka Sanford Conover) and Richard Montgomery, was later proven to have perjured himself during the 1865 Conspiracy Trial?? Didn't he testify later before some committee that he had been paid a good sum of money to lie in order to implicate the Canadian Cabinet?
(06-30-2015 04:30 PM)L Verge Wrote: Rick Stelnick (god rest his soul) caused me many a sleepless night about five or six years ago, but yes, I think you should check out Dixie Reckoning. While he and I had different views on a variety of things, I can truthfully say that I don't think all of his work should be trashed. You and he remind me a lot of each other - especially now that you are bringing in the New York money and the Peace Democrats.
We are on the same page as far as Fernando Wood is concerned, however. I have asked so many people what they think of him - and never gotten an answer. He and that Texas Senator or (Congressman?) who hung around the halls of Congress for so long as a Confederate before resigning his seat (can't think of the name) have always bugged me.
As for Herold, I'm not sure he ever made it to St. Mary's County, Maryland, let alone Canada.
Louis Wigfall is the Texas Senator I was trying to think of. I have always thought he managed to bungle both Union and Confederate governments, but I know very little about him.
RE: Decapitation of the Union - HerbS - 06-30-2015 05:38 PM
Amen Laurie,think of all the sleepless nights RS caused for everyone!