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Angela · 03-31-2015, 02:30 PM

I hate to ask these questions, but I cannot find information anywhere else.

Is it true that this document is the only thing that resembles a death certificate (document attached)?
Is there really no official death certificate?

And also, what happened to Lincoln's blood?
I found two sources: One is a newspaper article that claims the blood, after the embalming, was preserved. The other - I think it was discussed here - was that a former curator of the Smithsonian claimed that it was in the museum collection.

Jim Garrett · 03-31-2015, 07:35 PM

Yes indeed, Herb Collins (retired curator emeritus of the political collection said that at one time, Lincoln's blood was in the Smithsonian. I believe that Herb read this in a early annual report from maybe the turn of the century. The Smithsonian also had the boat that Booth and Herold crossed the Potomac in. No one at the Smithsonian today can say what has happened to either. The Smithsonian digitized the assention (sp) cards and the dessention (sp) cards. This process was not an exact science and the digitized cards do not have any info on those items and the original cards are in deep storage and in disarray.

Angela · 03-31-2015, 10:57 PM

Thanks Jim! Yes that sounds as if it will be very difficult to ever find that particular card again. So, I guess these things can be considered lost for good.

RJNorton · 04-01-2015, 04:00 AM

Angela, there was no official death certificate, but this form, filed by David Davis as part of the estate, apparently served as one.

Thomas Kearney · 04-01-2015, 11:41 AM

(03-31-2015 02:30 PM)Angela Wrote: I hate to ask these questions, but I cannot find information anywhere else.

Is it true that this document is the only thing that resembles a death certificate (document attached)?
Is there really no official death certificate?

And also, what happened to Lincoln's blood?
I found two sources: One is a newspaper article that claims the blood, after the embalming, was preserved. The other - I think it was discussed here - was that a former curator of the Smithsonian claimed that it was in the museum collection.

Cool, maybe I could see a copy at The Lincoln Tribute.

Cliff Roberts · 04-01-2015, 12:04 PM

(04-01-2015 04:00 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Angela, there was no official death certificate, but this form, filed by David Davis as part of the estate, apparently served as one.

Thanks much Roger for posting the image full-size; for some reason, I couldn't download the original from the thumbnail Angela posted. I had no idea such a record existed, since the District of Columbia didn't start keeping death records until 1880. Thanks again.

Cliff

RJNorton · 04-01-2015, 01:16 PM

The copy I posted came from a .pdf file that Betty sent me last year entitled "Lincoln's Death Certificate - Excerpts from newspapers and other sources - From the files of the Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection." Angela, where did you find yours?

Does it look like James Matheny signed it? I am a little confused if he did as the web page here says Matheny retired as clerk of the Sangamon County Circuit Court in December 1856. So why would he sign as clerk in 1865.

Then maybe it's my eyes - it looks like "Matheny" to me. Maybe some younger eyes than mine can tell.

(Matheny was the gentleman who was best man at the Lincolns' wedding in 1842.)

STS Lincolnite · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 01:30 PM by STS Lincolnite.)

(04-01-2015 01:16 PM)RJNorton Wrote: The copy I posted came from a .pdf file that Betty sent me last year entitled "Lincoln's Death Certificate - Excerpts from newspapers and other sources - From the files of the Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection." Angela, where did you find yours?

Does it look like James Matheny signed it? I am a little confused if he did as the web page here says Matheny retired as clerk of the Sangamon County Circuit Court in December 1856. So why would he sign as clerk in 1865.

Then maybe it's my eyes - it looks like "Matheny" to me. Maybe some younger eyes than mine can tell.

(Matheney was the gentleman who was best man at the Lincolns' wedding in 1842.)

It looks more to me like "N. W. Matheny" (so not James Matheny). Noah W. Matheny also served as a clerk in Sangamon County at one time. He is probably related to James in some way though I can't say how. I did a quick search and found this bio...haven't had time to read it but maybe it will provide some answers.

http://sangamon.illinoisgenweb.org/1904/mathenyn.htm

Angela · 04-02-2015, 12:21 AM

(04-01-2015 01:16 PM)RJNorton Wrote: The copy I posted came from a .pdf file that Betty sent me last year entitled "Lincoln's Death Certificate - Excerpts from newspapers and other sources - From the files of the Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection." Angela, where did you find yours?

Does it look like James Matheny signed it? I am a little confused if he did as the web page here says Matheny retired as clerk of the Sangamon County Circuit Court in December 1856. So why would he sign as clerk in 1865.

Then maybe it's my eyes - it looks like "Matheny" to me. Maybe some younger eyes than mine can tell.

(Matheny was the gentleman who was best man at the Lincolns' wedding in 1842.)

Roger, mine is a pdf as well - it came as part of an autopsy report that someone wanted translated. There is no other info on it.

Houmes · (This post was last modified: 04-02-2015 06:41 AM by Houmes.)

(04-01-2015 01:30 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:
(04-01-2015 01:16 PM)RJNorton Wrote: The copy I posted came from a .pdf file that Betty sent me last year entitled "Lincoln's Death Certificate - Excerpts from newspapers and other sources - From the files of the Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection." Angela, where did you find yours?

Does it look like James Matheny signed it? I am a little confused if he did as the web page here says Matheny retired as clerk of the Sangamon County Circuit Court in December 1856. So why would he sign as clerk in 1865.

Then maybe it's my eyes - it looks like "Matheny" to me. Maybe some younger eyes than mine can tell.

(Matheney was the gentleman who was best man at the Lincolns' wedding in 1842.)

It looks more to me like "N. W. Matheny" (so not James Matheny). Noah W. Matheny also served as a clerk in Sangamon County at one time. He is probably related to James in some way though I can't say how. I did a quick search and found this bio...haven't had time to read it but maybe it will provide some answers.

http://sangamon.illinoisgenweb.org/1904/mathenyn.htm

That isn't James Matheny's handwriting or signature. Lincoln dealer Norman Boas published a very fine book in 2009 titled Abraham Lincoln: Illustrated Biographical Dictionary Family and Associates 1809-1861. Virtually every entry in the 490 page book has a sample of handwriting and signature.

(03-31-2015 07:35 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Yes indeed, Herb Collins (retired curator emeritus of the political collection said that at one time, Lincoln's blood was in the Smithsonian. I believe that Herb read this in a early annual report from maybe the turn of the century. The Smithsonian also had the boat that Booth and Herold crossed the Potomac in. No one at the Smithsonian today can say what has happened to either. The Smithsonian digitized the assention (sp) cards and the dessention (sp) cards. This process was not an exact science and the digitized cards do not have any info on those items and the original cards are in deep storage and in disarray.

Would that be blood preserved in a bottle or merely blood-stained relics? Most embalmers during the Civil War--and ones today--usually send blood down the nearest drain. If the Smithsonian and the Army Medical Museum (the latter collected everything back then) have no samples of his brain, why would they collect a bottle of blood?

RJNorton · 04-02-2015, 09:32 AM

I am curious about that signature as this page indicates a man named Charles H. Lanphier was the Sangamon County Circuit Clerk at that time in history.

Can anyone read the month this was filed? I think I see 14th and 1865, but I cannot read the month. I am referring to the date near the bottom of the form.

Anita · 04-02-2015, 06:08 PM

Roger, the date is June 14th.

" No will of the President being found, Mrs. Lincoln and Robert wrote to the judge of the Sangamon County Court, asking that letters of administration be granted to Davis. On June 14, 1865, Davis made affidavit of the "decease of Abraham Lincoln on or about the 14th day f April, A.D. 1865, intestate as it is said and that his Estate will probably amount to the sum of $85,000; that said Abraham Lincoln left at the time of his decease, Mary Lincoln his widow, and Robert T. Lincoln and Thomas Lincoln his children."6

On June 16 Judge Norman M. Broadwell issued letters of adminis|tration to Davis, who took the oath to "well and truly administer the estate," and signed an administrator's bond for $160,000 with John T. Stuart, Lincoln's first law partner, as surety.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln2/525...w=fulltext

RJNorton · 04-03-2015, 03:49 AM

Many thanks for finding that, Anita!

I am still curious about the clerk's signature.

Jim Garrett · 04-03-2015, 09:40 AM

(04-02-2015 06:30 AM)Houmes Wrote:
(04-01-2015 01:30 PM)STS Lincolnite Wrote:
(04-01-2015 01:16 PM)RJNorton Wrote: The copy I posted came from a .pdf file that Betty sent me last year entitled "Lincoln's Death Certificate - Excerpts from newspapers and other sources - From the files of the Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection." Angela, where did you find yours?

Does it look like James Matheny signed it? I am a little confused if he did as the web page here says Matheny retired as clerk of the Sangamon County Circuit Court in December 1856. So why would he sign as clerk in 1865.

Then maybe it's my eyes - it looks like "Matheny" to me. Maybe some younger eyes than mine can tell.

(Matheney was the gentleman who was best man at the Lincolns' wedding in 1842.)

It looks more to me like "N. W. Matheny" (so not James Matheny). Noah W. Matheny also served as a clerk in Sangamon County at one time. He is probably related to James in some way though I can't say how. I did a quick search and found this bio...haven't had time to read it but maybe it will provide some answers.

http://sangamon.illinoisgenweb.org/1904/mathenyn.htm

That isn't James Matheny's handwriting or signature. Lincoln dealer Norman Boas published a very fine book in 2009 titled Abraham Lincoln: Illustrated Biographical Dictionary Family and Associates 1809-1861. Virtually every entry in the 490 page book has a sample of handwriting and signature.

(03-31-2015 07:35 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Yes indeed, Herb Collins (retired curator emeritus of the political collection said that at one time, Lincoln's blood was in the Smithsonian. I believe that Herb read this in a early annual report from maybe the turn of the century. The Smithsonian also had the boat that Booth and Herold crossed the Potomac in. No one at the Smithsonian today can say what has happened to either. The Smithsonian digitized the assention (sp) cards and the dessention (sp) cards. This process was not an exact science and the digitized cards do not have any info on those items and the original cards are in deep storage and in disarray.

Would that be blood preserved in a bottle or merely blood-stained relics? Most embalmers during the Civil War--and ones today--usually send blood down the nearest drain. If the Smithsonian and the Army Medical Museum (the latter collected everything back then) have no samples of his brain, why would they collect a bottle of blood?

Herb Collins did not say how the blood was preserved. I always just assumed in was in a bottle.

L Verge · 04-03-2015, 09:49 AM

I understand preserving Lincoln's brain, especially if the path of the bullet could be traced for use during the trial of the conspirators. But, what was the point of preserving his blood? Just as a sacred relic?

There are also reports from the Northern Neck that Jones's little rowboat never left Virginia. If it did (and was intact), that would be a pretty large accession to "lose."