Lincoln's Gamble: The Tumultuous Six Months that Gave America the Emancipation

[Linda Anderson]

Lincoln's Gamble: The Tumultuous Six Months that Gave America the Emancipation Proclamation and Changed the Course of the Civil War by Todd Brewster will be published next month.

“This story has been told before, but never as well, with such a firm grasp of the revolutionary implications of Lincoln’s decision, or the multi-layered levels of Lincoln’s quite tortured thought process. Although Lincoln is the most written about figure in American history, Brewster’s book is a major entry in the Lincoln sweepstakes.” (Joseph J. Ellis, author of Founding Brothers)"

http://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Gamble-Tu...3Bs+gamble

[brewstt]

Was just made aware, Linda, of your post here about my new book which comes out next week. Hope you and others enjoy it. You can read about the book on my website, http://www.lincolnsgamble.com, and click through there to pre-order a copy.

Would love to get reactions from everyone as they read the book.

[Linda Anderson]

(09-01-2014 04:29 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Was just made aware, Linda, of your post here about my new book which comes out next week. Hope you and others enjoy it. You can read about the book on my website, http://www.lincolnsgamble.com, and click through there to pre-order a copy.

Would love to get reactions from everyone as they read the book.

Welcome to the forum, Todd! I'm looking forward to reading your book.

We've been discussing Mary Lincoln's reaction to the EP in the thread "Our One Common Country" (under News and Announcements) and I found your book when I googled "Florence W. Stanley" reporter. The discussion starts at Post #60.

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-4.html

What is your opinion on the validity of Mrs. Stanley's comments about Mrs. Lincoln?

Feb. 7, 1935

Dear Mr. Sturges:

Both of your etchings of Abraham Lincoln impressed me, but the one with the sadness removed called to thought an incident in Lincoln’s life.

It was my privilege to know from the time I was four years old Robert Todd Lincoln. Because of my great love for Abraham Lincoln he spoke very freely to me of homely incidents and when I wanted some material on Lincoln in the course of my studies he told me many things among which was the following:

“My mother was very much opposed to the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation and expressed her views at great length before retiring. My father never retired that night but paced his study—back and forth—stopping now and then to read a few favorite verses from the Bible or to gaze at the sky.

“In the morning my mother and I went to his study, my mother inquiring in her quick sharp way, ‘Well, what do you intend doing?’

“My father looked up, as to heaven, a great light illuming his face and for the moment removing the care-worn lines, replied, ‘I am a man under orders, I cannot do otherwise.’”

Mr. Robert Lincoln commented that there seemed to be a “presence” which silenced further comment from his mother or himself. That day Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

The above is from my notes taken as Mr. Robert Todd Lincoln spoke.

Very sincerely yours,
(Mrs.) Florence W. Stanley

[Eva Elisabeth]

Welcome Todd! I second Linda - I'm looking forward to your book. I also just wanted to post the same as Linda did, respectively a summary of the thread. Here it goes:

On Aug.20, a member posted the following quote from M. Burlingame's "Abraham Lincoln: A Life,” Vol. II:
"On January 1, 1863, after Lincoln spent a sleepless night, his wife, who (according to her eldest son) ‘was very much opposed to the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation,’ inquired ‘in her sharp way, 'Well, what do you intend doing?'’ He replied: ‘I am under orders, I cannot do otherwise.’”
We have since been discussing the reliability of this quote the source of which reads as follows:
"Robert Todd Lincoln told this to Mrs. Florence Weston Stanley. Mrs. Florence Weston Stanley to Dwight C. Sturges, [Needham, Massachusetts?], 7 February 1935, Christian Science Monitor , 12 February 1935."
...respectively the degree of aquaintance Mrs. Florence Weston Stanley had with Robert Lincoln. Forum member David Lockmiller found the letter she wrote to Mr. Sturges, which Linda posted above.

We drew a blank wherever we wanted to find out more about Mrs. Florence Weston Stanley's relationship to Robert (and Robert was known for being reluctant to comment on his parents, even burned their correspondence) and on the reliability of her claim. Roger and Laurie even contacted Robert Lincoln expert Jason Emerson, who didn't know more either (see post #87):
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-6.html

Linda in her research found that the letter is thematized in your book:
http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-5.html

May I, too, kindly ask if you could comment on this, or if we find some light shed on this lady in your book? Many thanks for any hint or comment!

[LincolnToddFan]

Hi todd, welcome to our fantastic forum! I am excited to hear about your new book..as far as I am concerned there can never be too many new Lincoln books!

[David Lockmiller]

(09-01-2014 04:54 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 04:29 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Was just made aware, Linda, of your post here about my new book which comes out next week. Hope you and others enjoy it. You can read about the book on my website, http://www.lincolnsgamble.com, and click through there to pre-order a copy.

Would love to get reactions from everyone as they read the book.

Welcome to the forum, Todd! I'm looking forward to reading your book.

We've been discussing Mary Lincoln's reaction to the EP in the thread "Our One Common Country" (under News and Announcements) and I found your book when I googled "Florence W. Stanley" reporter. The discussion starts at Post #60.

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-4.html

What is your opinion on the validity of Mrs. Stanley's comments about Mrs. Lincoln?

I went to Mr. Brewster's website and this was the first sentence below his bookcover:

"On the night before he signed the act freeing four million slaves, no one, not even Abraham Lincoln, was sure he would do it."

I disagree with this statement. Lincoln committed to issuing the Emancipation Proclamation exactly 100 days before January 1, 1863. All here know his determination once his mind was set.

The facts of this issue are as President Lincoln himself detailed to F. B. Carpenter, The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months At The White House, (1879), pages 20-23:

"It had got to be," said he, "midsummer, 1862. Things had gone on from bad to worse, until I felt that we had reached the end of our rope on the plan of operations we had been pursuing; that we had about played our last card, and must change our tactics, or lose the game! I now determined (emphasis added) upon the adoption of the emancipation policy; and without consultation with, or the knowledge of the Cabinet, I prepared the original draft of the proclamation, and, after much anxious thought, called a Cabinet meeting upon the subject. This was the last of July, or the first part of the month of August, 1862" (The exact date he did not remember.)

"This Cabinet meeting took place, I think, upon a Saturday. All were present, excepting Mr. Blair, the Postmaster-General, who was absent at the opening of the discussion, but came in subsequently. I said to the Cabinet that I had resolved upon this step, and had not called them together to ask their advice, but to lay the subject-matter of a proclamation before them; suggestions as to which would be in order, after they had heard it read. . . . Various suggestions were offered. . . . Mr. Blair, after he came in, deprecated the policy, on the ground that it would cost the Administration the fall elections."

"Nothing, however, was offered that I had not already fully anticipated and settled in my own mind, until Secretary Seward spoke. He said in substance: 'Mr. President, I approve of the proclamation, but I question the expediency of its issue at this juncture. The depression of the public mind, consequent upon our repeated reverses, is so great that I fear the effect of so important a step. It may be viewed as the last measure of an exhausted government, a cry for help; the government stretching forth its hands to Ethiopia, instead of Ethiopia stretching forth her hands to the government.'"

"His idea," said the President, "was that if would be considered our last shriek, on the retreat." (This was his precise expression.) "'Now, continued Mr. Seward, 'while I approve the measure, I suggest, sir, that you postpone its issue, until you can give it to the country supported by military success, instead of issuing it, as would be the case now, upon the greatest disasters of the war!'"

Mr. Lincoln continued: "The wisdom of the view of the Secretary of State struck me with very great force. It was an aspect of the case that, in all my thought upon the subject, I had entirely overlooked. The result was that I put the draft of the proclamation aside, as you do your sketech for a picture, waiting for a victory.

From time to time I added or changed a line, touching it up here and there, anxiously watching the progress of events. Well, the next news we had was of Pope's disaster, at Bull Run. Things looked darker than ever. Finally, came the week of the battle of Antietam. I determined to wait no longer. The news came, I think, on Wednesday, that the advantage was on our side.

I was then staying at the Soldier's Home, (three miles out of Washington). Here I finished writing the second draft of the preliminary proclamation; came up on Saturday; called the Cabinet together to hear it, and it was published the following Monday."

I wish to add another story which begins near the end of the "100 days" wait. It comes from my original favorite Lincoln book, Lincoln Talks, a Biography in Anecdote, by Emanuel Hertz, which does contain stories of doubtful authenticity [Mr. Hertz is very short on references]. In this case, the reference provided is Z. C. Robbins. The story is at pages 340-41 of Lincoln Talks.

A tremendous pressure was brought to bear upon the President to witdraw the threatened issue of the Emancipation Proclamation. Letters poured in, some imploring, some threatening, until the staunch anti-slavery people feared that Mr. Lincoln would not withstand the pressure. One day about a week before the day set for the proclamation, Mr. Robbins walked into the office of Secretary Nicolay. The President entered, put his hand on Mr. Robbin's shoulder, and said: "Well, old friend, the important day draws near."

"Yes," replied Robbins, "and I hope there will be no backing out on your part."

"Well, I don't know," said Lincoln. "Peter denied his Master. He thought he wouldn't, but he did."

The great day came and with it the freedom to black and white.

A few days later Mr. Robbins met Mr. Lincoln, when the latter grasped his hand and said: "Well, friend Robbins, I beat Peter."

[brewstt]

Thank you all for the warm welcome. The Christian Science Monitor piece is my source on the "night before" as well. I do not know more than anyone else about this. The story actually comes
from two articles in the Christian Science Monitor, and both ran without byline. The first was called “New Light on Lincoln’s Character” and appeared in the paper on February 12, 1935. Anticipating Lincoln’s birthday,
the paper had run a tribute to Lincoln earlier in the week. In response, a letter arrived from Mrs. Florence W. Stanley, who said that she had known Robert Todd Lincoln since she was four years old (Robert Todd Lincoln died in 1926), and he had once told her the story of New Year’s Eve 1862. The letter is reproduced in the Monitor. The Monitor published a second story about the same letter on September 22, 1937. Both are available through the Monitor archives. As I mention in my book, the story, while tantalizing, hangs on very little evidence. If Robert Todd Lincoln knew this to be true, why did he never say it before? But a lot of Lincoln lore is supported by equally thin evidence.

---

(09-02-2014 10:57 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 04:54 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 04:29 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Was just made aware, Linda, of your post here about my new book which comes out next week. Hope you and others enjoy it. You can read about the book on my website, http://www.lincolnsgamble.com, and click through there to pre-order a copy.

Would love to get reactions from everyone as they read the book.

Welcome to the forum, Todd! I'm looking forward to reading your book.

We've been discussing Mary Lincoln's reaction to the EP in the thread "Our One Common Country" (under News and Announcements) and I found your book when I googled "Florence W. Stanley" reporter. The discussion starts at Post #60.

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-4.html

What is your opinion on the validity of Mrs. Stanley's comments about Mrs. Lincoln?

I went to Mr. Brewster's website and this was the first sentence below his bookcover:

"On the night before he signed the act freeing four million slaves, no one, not even Abraham Lincoln, was sure he would do it."

I disagree with this statement. Lincoln committed to issuing the Emancipation Proclamation exactly 100 days before January 1, 1863. All here know his determination once his mind was set.

The facts of this issue are as President Lincoln himself detailed to F. B. Carpenter, The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months At The White House, (1879), pages 20-23:

"It had got to be," said he, "midsummer, 1862. Things had gone on from bad to worse, until I felt that we had reached the end of our rope on the plan of operations we had been pursuing; that we had about played our last card, and must change our tactics, or lose the game! I now determined (emphasis added) upon the adoption of the emancipation policy; and without consultation with, or the knowledge of the Cabinet, I prepared the original draft of the proclamation, and, after much anxious thought, called a Cabinet meeting upon the subject. This was the last of July, or the first part of the month of August, 1862" (The exact date he did not remember.)

"This Cabinet meeting took place, I think, upon a Saturday. All were present, excepting Mr. Blair, the Postmaster-General, who was absent at the opening of the discussion, but came in subsequently. I said to the Cabinet that I had resolved upon this step, and had not called them together to ask their advice, but to lay the subject-matter of a proclamation before them; suggestions as to which would be in order, after they had heard it read. . . . Various suggestions were offered. . . . Mr. Blair, after he came in, deprecated the policy, on the ground that it would cost the Administration the fall elections."

"Nothing, however, was offered that I had not already fully anticipated and settled in my own mind, until Secretary Seward spoke. He said in substance: 'Mr. President, I approve of the proclamation, but I question the expediency of its issue at this juncture. The depression of the public mind, consequent upon our repeated reverses, is so great that I fear the effect of so important a step. It may be viewed as the last measure of an exhausted government, a cry for help; the government stretching forth its hands to Ethiopia, instead of Ethiopia stretching forth her hands to the government.'"

"His idea," said the President, "was that if would be considered our last shriek, on the retreat." (This was his precise expression.) "'Now, continued Mr. Seward, 'while I approve the measure, I suggest, sir, that you postpone its issue, until you can give it to the country supported by military success, instead of issuing it, as would be the case now, upon the greatest disasters of the war!'"

Mr. Lincoln continued: "The wisdom of the view of the Secretary of State struck me with very great force. It was an aspect of the case that, in all my thought upon the subject, I had entirely overlooked. The result was that I put the draft of the proclamation aside, as you do your sketech for a picture, waiting for a victory.

From time to time I added or changed a line, touching it up here and there, anxiously watching the progress of events. Well, the next news we had was of Pope's disaster, at Bull Run. Things looked darker than ever. Finally, came the week of the battle of Antietam. I determined to wait no longer. The news came, I think, on Wednesday, that the advantage was on our side.

I was then staying at the Soldier's Home, (three miles out of Washington). Here I finished writing the second draft of the preliminary proclamation; came up on Saturday; called the Cabinet together to hear it, and it was published the following Monday."

I wish to add another story which begins near the end of the "100 days" wait. It comes from my original favorite Lincoln book, Lincoln Talks, a Biography in Anecdote, by Emanuel Hertz, which does contain stories of doubtful authenticity [Mr. Hertz is very short on references]. In this case, the reference provided is Z. C. Robbins. The story is at pages 340-41 of Lincoln Talks.

A tremendous pressure was brought to bear upon the President to witdraw the threatened issue of the Emancipation Proclamation. Letters poured in, some imploring, some threatening, until the staunch anti-slavery people feared that Mr. Lincoln would not withstand the pressure. One day about a week before the day set for the proclamation, Mr. Robbins walked into the office of Secretary Nicolay. The President entered, put his hand on Mr. Robbin's shoulder, and said: "Well, old friend, the important day draws near."

"Yes," replied Robbins, "and I hope there will be no backing out on your part."

"Well, I don't know," said Lincoln. "Peter denied his Master. He thought he wouldn't, but he did."

The great day came and with it the freedom to black and white.

A few days later Mr. Robbins met Mr. Lincoln, when the latter grasped his hand and said: "Well, friend Robbins, I beat Peter."

---

(09-02-2014 10:57 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 04:54 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:  

(09-01-2014 04:29 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Was just made aware, Linda, of your post here about my new book which comes out next week. Hope you and others enjoy it. You can read about the book on my website, http://www.lincolnsgamble.com, and click through there to pre-order a copy.

Would love to get reactions from everyone as they read the book.

Welcome to the forum, Todd! I'm looking forward to reading your book.

We've been discussing Mary Lincoln's reaction to the EP in the thread "Our One Common Country" (under News and Announcements) and I found your book when I googled "Florence W. Stanley" reporter. The discussion starts at Post #60.

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-4.html

What is your opinion on the validity of Mrs. Stanley's comments about Mrs. Lincoln?

I went to Mr. Brewster's website and this was the first sentence below his bookcover:

"On the night before he signed the act freeing four million slaves, no one, not even Abraham Lincoln, was sure he would do it."

I disagree with this statement. Lincoln committed to issuing the Emancipation Proclamation exactly 100 days before January 1, 1863. All here know his determination once his mind was set.

The facts of this issue are as President Lincoln himself detailed to F. B. Carpenter, The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months At The White House, (1879), pages 20-23:

"It had got to be," said he, "midsummer, 1862. Things had gone on from bad to worse, until I felt that we had reached the end of our rope on the plan of operations we had been pursuing; that we had about played our last card, and must change our tactics, or lose the game! I now determined (emphasis added) upon the adoption of the emancipation policy; and without consultation with, or the knowledge of the Cabinet, I prepared the original draft of the proclamation, and, after much anxious thought, called a Cabinet meeting upon the subject. This was the last of July, or the first part of the month of August, 1862" (The exact date he did not remember.)

"This Cabinet meeting took place, I think, upon a Saturday. All were present, excepting Mr. Blair, the Postmaster-General, who was absent at the opening of the discussion, but came in subsequently. I said to the Cabinet that I had resolved upon this step, and had not called them together to ask their advice, but to lay the subject-matter of a proclamation before them; suggestions as to which would be in order, after they had heard it read. . . . Various suggestions were offered. . . . Mr. Blair, after he came in, deprecated the policy, on the ground that it would cost the Administration the fall elections."

"Nothing, however, was offered that I had not already fully anticipated and settled in my own mind, until Secretary Seward spoke. He said in substance: 'Mr. President, I approve of the proclamation, but I question the expediency of its issue at this juncture. The depression of the public mind, consequent upon our repeated reverses, is so great that I fear the effect of so important a step. It may be viewed as the last measure of an exhausted government, a cry for help; the government stretching forth its hands to Ethiopia, instead of Ethiopia stretching forth her hands to the government.'"

"His idea," said the President, "was that if would be considered our last shriek, on the retreat." (This was his precise expression.) "'Now, continued Mr. Seward, 'while I approve the measure, I suggest, sir, that you postpone its issue, until you can give it to the country supported by military success, instead of issuing it, as would be the case now, upon the greatest disasters of the war!'"

Mr. Lincoln continued: "The wisdom of the view of the Secretary of State struck me with very great force. It was an aspect of the case that, in all my thought upon the subject, I had entirely overlooked. The result was that I put the draft of the proclamation aside, as you do your sketech for a picture, waiting for a victory.

From time to time I added or changed a line, touching it up here and there, anxiously watching the progress of events. Well, the next news we had was of Pope's disaster, at Bull Run. Things looked darker than ever. Finally, came the week of the battle of Antietam. I determined to wait no longer. The news came, I think, on Wednesday, that the advantage was on our side.

I was then staying at the Soldier's Home, (three miles out of Washington). Here I finished writing the second draft of the preliminary proclamation; came up on Saturday; called the Cabinet together to hear it, and it was published the following Monday."

I wish to add another story which begins near the end of the "100 days" wait. It comes from my original favorite Lincoln book, Lincoln Talks, a Biography in Anecdote, by Emanuel Hertz, which does contain stories of doubtful authenticity [Mr. Hertz is very short on references]. In this case, the reference provided is Z. C. Robbins. The story is at pages 340-41 of Lincoln Talks.

A tremendous pressure was brought to bear upon the President to witdraw the threatened issue of the Emancipation Proclamation. Letters poured in, some imploring, some threatening, until the staunch anti-slavery people feared that Mr. Lincoln would not withstand the pressure. One day about a week before the day set for the proclamation, Mr. Robbins walked into the office of Secretary Nicolay. The President entered, put his hand on Mr. Robbin's shoulder, and said: "Well, old friend, the important day draws near."

"Yes," replied Robbins, "and I hope there will be no backing out on your part."

"Well, I don't know," said Lincoln. "Peter denied his Master. He thought he wouldn't, but he did."

The great day came and with it the freedom to black and white.

A few days later Mr. Robbins met Mr. Lincoln, when the latter grasped his hand and said: "Well, friend Robbins, I beat Peter."

---

I seem to be such a klutz on posting to the site. I apologize if I am making mistakes.

As for Lincoln's decision on the EP being in doubt, Linda, I hope you will read my book. I think you will be surprised to see that even after the Preliminary Proclamation is published, Lincoln gave many signs of retreat right up to the night before. Also, I discovered that Carpenter can be a suspect source.


http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...age-4.html

What is your opinion on the validity of Mrs. Stanley's comments about Mrs. Lincoln?


[/quote]

I went to Mr. Brewster's website and this was the first sentence below his bookcover:

"On the night before he signed the act freeing four million slaves, no one, not even Abraham Lincoln, was sure he would do it."

I disagree with this statement. Lincoln committed to issuing the Emancipation Proclamation exactly 100 days before January 1, 1863. All here know his determination once his mind was set.

The facts of this issue are as President Lincoln himself detailed to F. B. Carpenter, The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months At The White House, (1879), pages 20-23:

"It had got to be," said he, "midsummer, 1862. Things had gone on from bad to worse, until I felt that we had reached the end of our rope on the plan of operations we had been pursuing; that we had about played our last card, and must change our tactics, or lose the game! I now determined (emphasis added) upon the adoption of the emancipation policy; and without consultation with, or the knowledge of the Cabinet, I prepared the original draft of the proclamation, and, after much anxious thought, called a Cabinet meeting upon the subject. This was the last of July, or the first part of the month of August, 1862" (The exact date he did not remember.)

"This Cabinet meeting took place, I think, upon a Saturday. All were present, excepting Mr. Blair, the Postmaster-General, who was absent at the opening of the discussion, but came in subsequently. I said to the Cabinet that I had resolved upon this step, and had not called them together to ask their advice, but to lay the subject-matter of a proclamation before them; suggestions as to which would be in order, after they had heard it read. . . . Various suggestions were offered. . . . Mr. Blair, after he came in, deprecated the policy, on the ground that it would cost the Administration the fall elections."

"Nothing, however, was offered that I had not already fully anticipated and settled in my own mind, until Secretary Seward spoke. He said in substance: 'Mr. President, I approve of the proclamation, but I question the expediency of its issue at this juncture. The depression of the public mind, consequent upon our repeated reverses, is so great that I fear the effect of so important a step. It may be viewed as the last measure of an exhausted government, a cry for help; the government stretching forth its hands to Ethiopia, instead of Ethiopia stretching forth her hands to the government.'"

"His idea," said the President, "was that if would be considered our last shriek, on the retreat." (This was his precise expression.) "'Now, continued Mr. Seward, 'while I approve the measure, I suggest, sir, that you postpone its issue, until you can give it to the country supported by military success, instead of issuing it, as would be the case now, upon the greatest disasters of the war!'"

Mr. Lincoln continued: "The wisdom of the view of the Secretary of State struck me with very great force. It was an aspect of the case that, in all my thought upon the subject, I had entirely overlooked. The result was that I put the draft of the proclamation aside, as you do your sketech for a picture, waiting for a victory.

From time to time I added or changed a line, touching it up here and there, anxiously watching the progress of events. Well, the next news we had was of Pope's disaster, at Bull Run. Things looked darker than ever. Finally, came the week of the battle of Antietam. I determined to wait no longer. The news came, I think, on Wednesday, that the advantage was on our side.

I was then staying at the Soldier's Home, (three miles out of Washington). Here I finished writing the second draft of the preliminary proclamation; came up on Saturday; called the Cabinet together to hear it, and it was published the following Monday."

I wish to add another story which begins near the end of the "100 days" wait. It comes from my original favorite Lincoln book, Lincoln Talks, a Biography in Anecdote, by Emanuel Hertz, which does contain stories of doubtful authenticity [Mr. Hertz is very short on references]. In this case, the reference provided is Z. C. Robbins. The story is at pages 340-41 of Lincoln Talks.

A tremendous pressure was brought to bear upon the President to witdraw the threatened issue of the Emancipation Proclamation. Letters poured in, some imploring, some threatening, until the staunch anti-slavery people feared that Mr. Lincoln would not withstand the pressure. One day about a week before the day set for the proclamation, Mr. Robbins walked into the office of Secretary Nicolay. The President entered, put his hand on Mr. Robbin's shoulder, and said: "Well, old friend, the important day draws near."

"Yes," replied Robbins, "and I hope there will be no backing out on your part."

"Well, I don't know," said Lincoln. "Peter denied his Master. He thought he wouldn't, but he did."

The great day came and with it the freedom to black and white.

A few days later Mr. Robbins met Mr. Lincoln, when the latter grasped his hand and said: "Well, friend Robbins, I beat Peter."
[/quote]

[Linda Anderson]

(09-02-2014 09:04 PM)brewstt Wrote:  As for Lincoln's decision on the EP being in doubt, Linda, I hope you will read my book. I think you will be surprised to see that even after the Preliminary Proclamation is published, Lincoln gave many signs of retreat right up to the night before. Also, I discovered that Carpenter can be a suspect source.

Thank you for your reply on Florence Stanley, Todd. So we should take Carpenter's stories with a grain of salt? I wonder about his tale of no one telling William Seward, the Secretary of State, about Lincoln being assassinated and Seward figuring it out himself when he sees the flag flying at half mast. Other sources say he was told over the weekend.

Just so you know, it was David Lockmiller who wrote that he disagrees about Lincoln's decision on the EP being in doubt, not me.

[L Verge]

Since Florence Stanley was writing for the Christian Scientist magazine, and since Mary Harlan Lincoln was a follower of that group, perhaps Mrs. Stanley's relationship with Robert was through his wife???

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks for your reply and comments, Todd.

(09-02-2014 09:04 PM)brewstt Wrote:  As I mention in my book, the story, while tantalizing, hangs on very little evidence...But a lot of Lincoln lore is supported by equally thin evidence.

This reminds me of what Herndon replied to Lamon when the latter requested about the reliability of the claims Herndon made of Lincoln's illegitimacy: "The evidence is not conclusive, but men have been hung on less." Sadly, IMO.

(09-02-2014 09:04 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Lincoln gave many signs of retreat right up to the night before.

I'm curious and looking forward to learn about these signs as I had always believed that by and at the very time he was to sign the EP he was firm about his decision (as I also believed what Mary once said: "Mr. Lincoln...was a terribly firm man when he set his foot down. None of us, no man or woman, could rule him after he had once fully made up his mind"). Also he had no illusions about the rather symbolic than de facto effect of the EP.

(09-02-2014 09:04 PM)brewstt Wrote:  Also, I discovered that Carpenter can be a suspect source.

I agree, but I had believed Sewards eyewitness account to be quite reliable:
"Mr. Lincoln dipped his pen in the ink, and then, holding it a moment above the sheet, seemed to hesitate. Looking around, he said: 'I never in my life felt more certain that I was doing right, than I do in signing this paper. But I have been receiving calls and shaking hands since nine o'clock this morning, till my arm is stiff and numb. Now this signature is one that will be closely examined, and if they find my hand trembled they will say 'he had some compunctions.' But anyway, it is going to be done.'...The signature proved to be unusually clear, bold, and firm."
(Frederick Seward: "Reminiscences of a War-time Statesman and Diplomat")

[Eva Elisabeth]

Just to add: Carpenter and Seward both quote Abraham Lincoln with exactly this sentence:
"Now this signature is one that will be closely examined, and if they find my hand trembled they will say 'he had some compunctions."
Carpenter's book was published in 1866, Frederick Seward's reminiscences in 1916, Seward was an eyewitness. Did one hear or copy from the other?

[RJNorton]

(09-03-2014 06:29 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Just to add: Carpenter and Seward both quote Abraham Lincoln with exactly this sentence:
"Now this signature is one that will be closely examined, and if they find my hand trembled they will say 'he had some compunctions."
Carpenter's book was published in 1866, Frederick Seward's reminiscences in 1916, Seward was an eyewitness. Did one hear or copy from the other?

Eva, I do not know, but apparently a very similar sentiment was described in a letter Charles Sumner sent to George Livermore dated January 9, 1863. I tried to find the text of this letter online but so far have drawn a blank.

[Rob Wick]

http://books.google.com/books?id=CgALAAA...&q&f=false

In the search box at left type in "597" which will take you to the letter.

Best
Rob

[David Lockmiller]

The highly respected Lincoln scholar, Dr. Allen C. Guelzo, winner of the Lincoln Prize, wrote in 2004 in his book Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, the End of Slavery in America at page 183:

"The signature looks a little tremulous," Lincoln admitted to Speaker of the House Schuyler Colfax "and other friends that night," but "not because of any uncertainty or hesitation on my part." It was rather exhaustion: "Three hours' hand-shaking is not calculated to improve a man's chirography." Whatever the state of his hand, "my resolution was firm. . . . Not one word of it will I ever recall."

I therefore look forward to seeing the case made by Mr. Brewster in his forthcoming book: "On the night before he signed the act freeing four million slaves, no one, not even Abraham Lincoln, was sure he would do it."

[Eva Elisabeth]

(09-04-2014 08:24 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(09-03-2014 06:29 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Just to add: Carpenter and Seward both quote Abraham Lincoln with exactly this sentence:
"Now this signature is one that will be closely examined, and if they find my hand trembled they will say 'he had some compunctions."
Carpenter's book was published in 1866, Frederick Seward's reminiscences in 1916, Seward was an eyewitness. Did one hear or copy from the other?

Eva, I do not know, but apparently a very similar sentiment was described in a letter Charles Sumner sent to George Livermore dated January 9, 1863. I tried to find the text of this letter online but so far have drawn a blank.

Sorry, Roger, mea culpa, shame on me. I copied something wrong when I looked this up originally for another recent post. Here's the correct Carpenter account (and the sentence is not therein):
   
   
I'll type it later instead of the pics, as soon as I've some more time.