"Our One Common Country" author talk in Stratford, CT

[RJNorton]

Here is another piece of information.

On October 29, 1867, Mary wrote this letter to Elizabeth Keckly.

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Chicago, October 29 (1867)

My dear Lizzie:

I received a very pleasant note from Mr. F. Douglass on yesterday. I will reply to it this morning, and enclose it to you to hand or send him immediately. In this morning’s Tribune there was a little article evidently designed to make capital against me just now - that three of my brothers were in the Southern army during the war. If they had been friendly with me they might have said they were half-brothers of Mrs. L., whom she had not known since they were infants; and as she left Kentucky at an early age her sympathies were entirely Republican - that her feelings were entirely with the North during the war, and always. I never failed to urge my husband to be an extreme Republican, and now, in the day of my trouble, you see how this very party is trying to work against me. Tell Mr. Douglass, and every one, how deeply my feelings were enlisted in the cause of freedom. Why harp upon these half-brothers, whom I never knew since they were infants, and scarcely then, for my early home was truly at a boarding school. Write to him all this, and talk it to everyone else. If we succeed I will soon send you enough for a very large supply of trimming material for the winter.

Truly,
M. L.

[LincolnToddFan]

Well it looks like we have contradictory evidence on MTL's views on Emancipation. But I still think the most reliable is the first hand documentation...her own letters, and the statements of people who actually knew and spoke with her like Swisshelm and Keckly, as opposed to the memories of a supposed friend of RTL's several decades after the fact.

Yes Roger, it is true that before she became First Lady she was certainly no abolitionist. I remember a letter she wrote to one of her Todd relatives where she laments finding decent household help in Springfield, and says something about how she hopes her husband's death never finds her living outside a slave state. And of course when she and AL visited the Todds in Lexington together, neither of them ever objected at all to the care and attention lavished upon them by the familys' legion of slaves.

But she had certainly changed her tune by the time of Fort Sumter, which is why the charges that she was a Confederate sympathizer have always struck me as ironic.

Thanks David and Roger, for the information.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Yes, thanks David and Roger, for finding and posting these letters!!

(08-26-2014 05:33 PM) LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I remember a letter she wrote to one of her Todd relatives where she laments finding decent household help in Springfield, and says something about how she hopes her husband's death never finds her living outside a slave state. And of course when she and AL visited the Todds in Lexington together, neither of them ever objected at all to the care and attention lavished upon them by the familys' legion of slaves.

Toia, are you sure she really wrote this herself, too? This is, however, also from an interwiew John S. Bradford, a political ally of her husband, gave Jesse W. Weik:
"Some years ago...I invited Mrs. Lincoln to accompany me...in a drive to the country. ...she appeared to be very nervous and more or less wrought up. What had caused her agitation she failed to disclose. We suspected that there had been a collision or disagreement of some kind with her servant, for, just as she settled back in her seat, she exclaimed with a sigh: 'Well, one thing is certain; if Mr. Lincoln should happen to die, his spirit will never find me living outside the boundaries of a slave State.'"

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/philo...:1.lincoln

[RJNorton]

Hi David. Do you have any additional information on Mrs. Florence W. Stanley? I cannot find that she is mentioned at all in Jason Emerson's encyclopedic Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln. (She is also not mentioned in John S. Goff's biography of Robert.) If she were an intimate friend with whom Robert openly shared such information about his parents I think I find it surprising that she is not even mentioned in Jason's book. Thus, I am curious to find out more about her. Many thanks.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Roger, considering how closed Robert was about giving info about his family, and even burned a lot of his parents' letters, I, too, find this statement strange:
"...he [Robert]spoke very freely to me of homely incidents and when I wanted some material on Lincoln in the course of my studies he told me many things" - this doesn't match my image of Robert.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Here's a very interesting article on the Lincolns' children, the authors claim that "Robert was also one of the most intriguing of all presidential children. Late in life Robert frequently dismissed reporters by saying he either did not know his father or could not remember his father, and he also treated his mother very unfairly."
http://americanaejournal.hu/vol6no1/watson-berger

[Linda Anderson]

I googled "Florence W. Stanley" reporter and found this link. Lincoln's Gamble: The Tumultuous Six Months that Gave America the Emancipation Proclamation and Changed the Course of the Civil War will be published next month.

Lincoln's Gamble: The Tumultuous Six Months that Gave ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1451693907
Todd Brewster - 2014 - ‎History
In response,a letter arrivedfrom Mrs.Florence W.Stanley, who saidthatshe had ...required thought”) comes fromBenjamin Perley Poore, a journalist who wrote for

http://books.google.com/books?id=xmpNAgA...CCoQ6AEwAg

[David Lockmiller]

(08-27-2014 04:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi David. Do you have any additional information on Mrs. Florence W. Stanley? I am curious to find out more about her.

Hi Roger. I am also curious to find out more about her.

All this seems so strange. Why would The Christian Science Monitor print the letter on page one without doing some checking as to the authenticity of her story? [side story - I googled the word "authenticity" to make sure that the spelling was correct and got the following for the use of the word: "the paper should have established the authenticity of the documents before publishing them"] Did the paper obtain some independent assurance that she actually had a close relationship with Robert Lincoln? On the other hand, it was such a good story and a February 12 (Lincoln's birthday anniversary) publication date, which was very soon after the newspaper received her letter, was fast approaching.

And, with so many professional and amateur Lincoln scholars around at that time, somebody must have questioned the authenticity of Mrs. Florence W. Stanley's narration, I presume. Look what happened on this website when I posted Professor Burlingame's text on the subject!

[LincolnToddFan]

(08-27-2014 03:35 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Yes, thanks David and Roger, for finding and posting these letters!!

(08-26-2014 05:33 PM) LincolnToddFan Wrote:  I remember a letter she wrote to one of her Todd relatives where she laments finding decent household help in Springfield, and says something about how she hopes her husband's death never finds her living outside a slave state. And of course when she and AL visited the Todds in Lexington together, neither of them ever objected at all to the care and attention lavished upon them by the familys' legion of slaves.

Toia, are you sure she really wrote this herself, too? This is, however, also from an interwiew John S. Bradford, a political ally of her husband, gave Jesse W. Weik:
"Some years ago...I invited Mrs. Lincoln to accompany me...in a drive to the country. ...she appeared to be very nervous and more or less wrought up. What had caused her agitation she failed to disclose. We suspected that there had been a collision or disagreement of some kind with her servant, for, just as she settled back in her seat, she exclaimed with a sigh: 'Well, one thing is certain; if Mr. Lincoln should happen to die, his spirit will never find me living outside the boundaries of a slave State.'"

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/philo...:1.lincoln

Hmmm...I could have sworn MTL wrote this to one of her sister's...perhaps Emilie Helm. But your detective skills are beyond reproach Eva, so I trust your opinion here better than mine!

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(08-27-2014 07:26 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Here's a very interesting article on the Lincolns' children, the authors claim that "Robert was also one of the most intriguing of all presidential children. Late in life Robert frequently dismissed reporters by saying he either did not know his father or could not remember his father, and he also treated his mother very unfairly."
http://americanaejournal.hu/vol6no1/watson-berger

Thanks Eva.

That was a great article, but when the author of it opines that Robert did not mourn his father's death he couldn't be more wrong. Every account of RTL at his father's deathbed has his sobbing, occasionally overcome with grief even as he tried to console his mother.

Here is an excerpt from a letter he wrote to one of his Harvard professor's two weeks after the assassination"

"....In all my plans for the future, the chief object I had in view was the approbation of my father. And now that he is gone, and in such a way, I feel utterly without spirit or courage. I know that such a feeling is wrong, and that it is my duty to overcome it. I trust for the sake of my mother and little brother that I will be able to do it".

April 28, 1865 (Letter of Robert Todd Lincoln quoted in Looking For Lincoln, Kunhardt, pg#47)

Robert had his faults, but I don't know how anyone can say he did not mourn the loss of his father.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Toia, RE: "...the author of it opines that Robert did not mourn his father's death", I agree Robert did, but IMO the author opinions Abraham Lincoln didn't mourn his father Thomas' death, and IMO therein is right. The respective passage reads:

"Lincoln’s father, Thomas, seemed incapable of demonstrating any affection toward his son and was emotionally absent from his son’s upbringing. For his part, [Abraham IMO]Lincoln would rarely speak of his father and could not bring himself to mourn his father’s passing. The nature of [Abraham IMO] Lincoln’s experience with his father might offer one possible explanation for his awkward relationship with Robert..."

I found the article interesting as it contained some accounts I hadn't seen before, e.g. that once Robert rushed into Nicolay's room boasting: “Well, I have just had a great row with the President of the United States!”

[LincolnToddFan]

Ahhhh okay, I get it! Thanks for the correction Eva!

Robert argued with AL over AL's complete refusal to try and get Tad under control. I don't blame Robert. Tad grew into an amazing young man, but as a child he sounded like a Super Brat!!!

[Eva Elisabeth]

RE: "I could have sworn MTL wrote this to one of her sister's...perhaps Emilie Helm" - Toia, you sure have read more and know Mary's letters better than I do. If you are sure you read this in one of Mary's letters I don't doubt you are wrong. I was just wondering if you perhaps had Bradford's account of the incident in mind as the wording is so similar to what you recalled reading, and somehow this is something I could rather imagine Mary saying in the very moment of being upset than writing, but I sure may be wrong, it was just a feeling.

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(08-27-2014 10:31 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote:  Tad grew into an amazing young man, but as a child he sounded like a Super Brat!!!

I agree on that, but he was also very compassionate and warm hearted.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(08-27-2014 08:20 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(08-27-2014 04:20 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi David. Do you have any additional information on Mrs. Florence W. Stanley? I am curious to find out more about her.

Hi Roger. I am also curious to find out more about her.

All this seems so strange. Why would The Christian Science Monitor print the letter on page one without doing some checking as to the authenticity of her story? [side story - I googled the word "authenticity" to make sure that the spelling was correct and got the following for the use of the word: "the paper should have established the authenticity of the documents before publishing them"] Did the paper obtain some independent assurance that she actually had a close relationship with Robert Lincoln? On the other hand, it was such a good story and a February 12 (Lincoln's birthday anniversary) publication date, which was very soon after the newspaper received her letter, was fast approaching.

And, with so many professional and amateur Lincoln scholars around at that time, somebody must have questioned the authenticity of Mrs. Florence W. Stanley's narration, I presume. Look what happened on this website when I posted Professor Burlingame's text on the subject!

David, thanks for sharing your thoughts. May I ask what you think now of the quote and it's (unique) claim that Mary objected the EP and her husband signing it? Do you still think she did?

[David Lockmiller]

I found the letter by googling “Chicago Tribune July 20, 1882.” The letter “Tribute to the Dead from Mrs. Jane Grey Swisshelm” appears on page 7 of 12, column 4.

Swissdale, Pa., July 17.—Today brings the sad, glad tidings that Mrs. Abraham Lincoln has passed from that darkness which had fallen upon her path through this life, out into the light and joy of that life toward which her vision has so long been strained.

Years ago she held my hands in a close, warm clasp—such a clasp as only a true heart can inspire—and, looking into my eyes, said: “Ah, my dear friend, you will rejoice when you know that I have gone to my husband and children!”

I want to write of her as a historical character—as one to whom the people of this country owe a great reparation, but can only think of her as a most affectionate, faithful friend. Yet she was the inspiration of her husband’s political career. It was she who

“Urged him up the steep; Where brings the noblest crown.
Honor may gain or virtue keep—An honest man’s renown.”
In statesmanship she was farther-sighted than he—was more radically opposed to slavery, and urged him to Emancipation, as a matter of right, long before he saw it as a matter of necessity.

She opposed the appointment of Seward to a Cabinet place because she believed him to be a temporizer, and that his pride and disappointment would prevent any zeal in making the Administration successful. Her sympathies were with the radical Abolitionists from first to last of the War of the Rebellion; and it was simply as an Abolitionist that she honored me with her friendship and confidence at a time when she held the proudest social position in the world, and I had not the means to get a second dress. She must have known I was poor; but nothing in our intercourse ever reminded me that my $10 must go as far as her $1,000; and the ground of her friendship was my sympathy with her husband. I never knew a woman who more completely merged herself in her husband. Whatever aid or counsel she gave him, in her eyes his acts were his own, and she never sought any of the credit due to them.

There is more to this letter for those interested in reading the complete letter. There is even a paragraph that explains that Mary Todd Lincoln’s “wearing of rich clothing [was] a patriotic duty.”

Jane Grey Swisshelm letter published Chicago Tribune July 20, 1882 at page 7 of 12, column 4

[LincolnToddFan]

Hmmm...I've read that tribute from Mary's friend JGS many times, and I always thought it was published in the New York Times.

Thanks for clarification, David.

I always wonder how so many people could have had such widely divergent experiences and opinions of Lincoln's wife?? Swisshelm obviously loved and admired her, and describes her character as almost noble. Judge David Davis thought she was nuts and a natural born thief.

It's never ceases to amaze me. Baffling.