What would Lincoln say about the present day elections for President for 2016?

[Gencor]

I am just curious! There seems to be a lot of discussion about Lincoln in this election and I was wondering what everyone was thinking about it. It is a very strange election year with some really unpredictable candidates on both sides. A lot of issues about the 13th and 14th amendments and I just wonder if this is going to be one of those election years when nothing can be predicted about anything. I know that it is one of the strangest election years I have ever lived through and I have been an activist for years. Any thoughts???????

[Tom Bogar]

I think John Adams may have been describing this year's campaigns when he said 242 years ago, "There is not conversation that is agreeable; there is not modesty, no attention to one another. They talk very loud, very fast, and altogether. If they ask you a question, before you can utter three words of your answer, they will break out upon you again and talk away." Plus ca change . . .

[Gencor]

(02-18-2016 06:29 PM)Tom Bogar Wrote:  I think John Adams may have been describing this year's campaigns when he said 242 years ago, "There is not conversation that is agreeable; there is not modesty, no attention to one another. They talk very loud, very fast, and altogether. If they ask you a question, before you can utter three words of your answer, they will break out upon you again and talk away." Plus ca change . . .

Fantastic! It seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same! Even 242 years later!

[RJNorton]

“To win the people, always cook them some savoury that pleases them.”
― Aristophanes, The Knights

[Gencor]

(02-19-2016 04:52 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

“To win the people, always cook them some savoury that pleases them.”
― Aristophanes, The Knights

Unbelievable! Roger, down south when we have local elections, such as going on now and even with Super Tuesday approaching and the presidential candidates coming through Louisiana, on the stump, you can't believe the fish fries, the hot dogs and beer parties and Bar B Que's all sponsored by the candidates and their operatives. One of the most fun things about campaigning down in Louisiana is the food, the casual speeches and meet and greets and the amazing homemade jambalaya and gumbo parties. Its a great way to meet the candidates and find out what they are all about.

---

I am from a "RED" state that just elected a "Blue" governor. As strange as it gets, our last governor, Bobby Jindal, was a bust, running for the Presidency, as we all knew he would be and the mess our new governor has been left to clean up, is going to be a huge challenge, both for the new Governor and for us all. Consider yourselves lucky that Jindal didn't get far, because he left Louisiana in a terrible financial mess, trying to run after the National Republican support and nomination.

I have been through many, many election seasons but nothing like this one. Do any of you know of past Presidential elections when everything seemed so topsy turvey????? It is mind blowing how a guy like Trump would or could ever be so popular, because he insults everyone, even the Pope! I am amazed at this. I don't ever remember so much irreverence for the office, from the press and the candidates alike. I think that they have all taken the phrase "politically correct" into territory that I don't even understand. I have been mortified by some of the horrible things that I hear from both the press and the candidates, especially Trump! I am so astonished at the lack of sheer respect that the press has exhibited and how supporters seem to be fine with the profanity and lack of just plain good manners. It seems that all of this is taking on the look of a race for ratings, like running for President in 2016 has become a reality show, complete with the press trying to scoop and sometimes I believe, even shape how they want the nomination outcome to be. Its dirty, dirty politics with the press driving the public to where they want them to go, for better ratings. Its mind blowing.

What has happened to good manners in politics? Has it just completely disappeared? The way we run for public office, for the highest position in this country, is to just insult and demean everyone? I know that some people really hate being politically correct, although, I don't understand that, but to just bully and tear up people and destroy reputations and obstruct everything, to me, is about more than just being against political correctness. This, to me, is not only shocking but horribly abusive. Is this how you get to be President of the United States now? I just wonder what would President Lincoln and other President's that preceded him think about how we select our Presidents in this 21st century?

[L Verge]

I share your thoughts completely. However, I'm afraid that what is going on with the candidates is just a reflection of what is happening to American society in general. The uncouth are winning.

[Gencor]

(02-19-2016 07:23 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I share your thoughts completely. However, I'm afraid that what is going on with the candidates is just a reflection of what is happening to American society in general. The uncouth are winning.

Its amazing! It seems that they are all coming from the underground out
into the open. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears yesterday when I actually saw Scott Pellie from CBS in a sit down interview with Mrs. Clinton. He just sat there and actually asked her if she ever tells the truth! Then her face got cloudy and her eyes were bigger, as if she was holding back her tears and trying to answer something that was just thrown at her. You could see that he hurt her. It was horrible and I felt so bad for her. I could just see this in some Marco Rubio ad against her in the general and it made me sick. Then I saw Marco Rubio, with that guy Trey Gowdy, who has been investigating the Benghazi stuff for the last 3 years and as he stood next to Rubio, in open support him, all over television, Rubio just blurts out that Mrs. Clinton has no business running for office, that she is a criminal, a felon and should be banned from even voting. I was stunned!!!!!! I mean, love her or hate her, this is just so inappropriate. It was horrible!!!!!! With Gowdy standing there in support of what he was saying, and there has been no charges against her, she spent 11 hours testifying, it was like Gowdy was supporting Rubio and what he said to the public. I was astonished! It was like he openly wanted to destroy her through Rubio. Talk about give it away!!!! That what he is investigating is all about politics, I would never trust anything now that the Benghazi committee would say or do. It is really clear that they are using this to try and stop her from running. That is just unbelievable to me. How out in the open they all are about it and nobody is trying to stop them. I actually am starting to think that maybe they should be investigating the damn committee to find just what the hell they are doing.

What amazes me is all of the tax payer money they have spent on this witch hunt and it turns out to be all about politics and stopping her from running and/or trying to discourage people from voting for her.

This is still america and I have no idea how there isn't some kind of oversight about stuff like this. I am just beyond amazed. All of the money, our tax money, that they are spending on this kind of stuff. They didn't take this much time or spend this kind of money investigating Watergate. It just amazes me everyday that the political atmosphere in this country has become so horrible, so sour and yet so accepted by the american people.

[Rob Wick]

I really hate to burst a bubble here, but very few if any of our elections have been cotillions or genteel. Maybe when George Washington became president, but after that, not so much.

Look at the election of 1800 (scroll down to about the middle of the page). This was just 11 years after the adoption of the Constitution and people were sincerely afraid that the country would be split apart.

A more recent election was the battle in 1884 between Grover Cleveland and James G. Blaine. "Ma Ma, Where's My Pa? Gone to the White House, Ha Ha Ha."

Politics at just about any level involves power, and power, in addition to being the ultimate aphrodisiac, also can make the most rational person into something his or her own mother wouldn't recognize. I don't believe our society is any coarser then it ever was. The only difference now is we have hundreds of professional and non-professional media outlets that need a constant feed of copy, and candidates play to that.

A basic source for American presidential elections is the History of American Presidential Elections 1789-2008. While most people wouldn't buy the set, it is readily available at most larger libraries.

Best
Rob

[Gencor]

(02-19-2016 10:03 PM)Rob Wick Wrote:  I really hate to burst a bubble here, but very few if any of our elections have been cotillions or genteel. Maybe when George Washington became president, but after that, not so much.

Look at the election of 1800 (scroll down to about the middle of the page). This was just 11 years after the adoption of the Constitution and people were sincerely afraid that the country would be split apart.

A more recent election was the battle in 1884 between Grover Cleveland and James G. Blaine. "Ma Ma, Where's My Pa? Gone to the White House, Ha Ha Ha."

Politics at just about any level involves power, and power, in addition to being the ultimate aphrodisiac, also can make the most rational person into something his or her own mother wouldn't recognize. I don't believe our society is any coarser then it ever was. The only difference now is we have hundreds of professional and non-professional media outlets that need a constant feed of copy, and candidates play to that.

A basic source for American presidential elections is the History of American Presidential Elections 1789-2008. While most people wouldn't buy the set, it is readily available at most larger libraries.

Best
Rob

Thanks, Rob. I will look that up. I am aware that the quest for power over the centuries has never been a smooth road, but this is just ridiculous. I don't ever remember another country actually trying to ban a candidate, even before he could get elected, through the English channels of government and any candidate ever taking after the Pope for a comment he made. I agree about the news cycles. I am beginning to think that they are no longer just about news, they are trying to shape elections and then sway public opinion to make it happen the way they want it. These constant polls to sway people's opinions and the way they call an election 5 minutes after the polls close? That is just unbelievable to me, especially when the election results are exactly what they predict. I wonder if the public minds, that are influenced by this, are becoming like STEPFORDS, programmed to do as they are told by the media. Out there for sure, bizarre and insane but it doesn't seem that anyone really cares or even notices this.

[Gene C]

"Thomas Kearney, Professional Photobomber. I'm back in the Presidential Race! Please vote for me! "

Starting to sound better as the weeks wear on.

At the Lincoln Museum in Springfield, there is a section about the election of 1860. The tone of this years election is nothing compared to what was being said then about Abraham Lincoln and Mary too.
My wife was very surprised about the things the press said about her during and following the election.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(02-20-2016 11:30 AM)Gene C Wrote:  My wife was very surprised about the things the press said about her during and following the election.

I don't want to comment on US politicians nor what Lincoln would have thought, but about journalists, he allegedly said the following (to Mrs. Wells):
"That is to say, they 'lie', and then they 're-lie'." (F. Carpenter: "Six Months...", p.156)

[Gencor]

(02-20-2016 06:17 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(02-20-2016 11:30 AM)Gene C Wrote:  My wife was very surprised about the things the press said about her during and following the election.

I don't want to comment on US politicians nor what Lincoln would have thought, but about journalists, he allegedly said the following (to Mrs. Wells):
"That is to say, they 'lie', and then they 're-lie'." (F. Carpenter: "Six Months...", p.156)

I always believed that they were supposed to be objective reporters of the news, not the news makers themselves.

[LincolnMan]

One writer had stated that Trump is working out of the Andrew Jackson playbook. Do you agree?

[Tom Bogar]

(02-21-2016 02:13 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  One writer had stated that Trump is working out of the Andrew Jackson playbook. Do you agree?

What a great way to put it! How true. Except, contrary to standard practice in the 1830s he hasn't begun getting voters drunk and dragging them to the polls, or hiring thugs to beat up anyone who tries to vote against him---yet.

[HerbS]

My vote goes to-Mickey Mouse!