1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Printable Version +- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium) +-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln before his Presidency (/forum-2.html) +--- Thread: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell (/thread-2518.html) |
RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - maharba - 12-25-2015 12:07 PM Maharba, can you post the URL of the page you are looking at? > Also, if Abraham Lincoln were not included in the 1840 federal census...is there importance to this? IMO it is not that unusual if the census misses some people.> I wish I had a link/URL to furnish but I looked at the 35mm film version. But I would guess that the Mormon LDS site and others have that 1840 Sangamon census online. As I say, the numbering of the pages is almost useless, and the names hard to really read. As others look at this listing I cited (for Abraham Lincon/Lemon/Lewis/?), you actually have to use your imagination to be sure that the 'Abraham' part is even that. And yes I think it is very worthwhile that our future highest Federal official would be located by name, in what should be his first census. I think that it might be remiss for a modern 'Lincoln scholar' to never bother to look at the very most basic original records, especially when it is so much easier than the past 200 years, to do. No long train rides to DC to pore over old original Census records. We've already learned one surprise: that in 1840 Lincoln was not enumerated with Josh Speed. And remember that there are many 'genealogists' yet who claim (future president) Abraham Lincoln is the Abram Lincoln in Hancock county 1840. So, we can say "they haven't caught up to actual history yet". Because that Abram Lincoln is the first cousin of (president) Abraham Lincoln, that is the son of Mordecai Lincoln (brother of pres Lincolns father Thomas). It is slightly possible we yet might find Abraham Lincoln had traveled briefly out to the Omaha region or even further west, in the 1840 census. My listing cited may be erroneous, yet. This is actual history, and it is almost comical it has apparently not been worked out, before this time. RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Donna McCreary - 09-15-2017 01:17 AM (06-22-2015 03:09 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Following Susan's link I found Phillip Dinkel mentioned in By Square & Compass: Saga of the Lincoln Home by Dr. Wayne C. Temple. Roger, can you provide the page numbers for this information? thanks. RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 09-15-2017 07:31 AM (09-15-2017 01:17 AM)Donna McCreary Wrote: Roger, can you provide the page numbers for this information? thanks. Yes, Donna. Please see pages 132-133 of Dr. Temple's book. RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - Steve Whitlock - 06-15-2019 01:52 PM (12-13-2015 05:46 PM)maharba Wrote: I know this Census can be a fairly dry topic which may interest few, but yet I believe there is a bit of a historical mystery here that is worth examining. So, I will plunge ahead. I asked: Where was Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 Census listing? My assumption is that all of us would at least say***************************************************** You should expect to find Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 census with the William Butler family. According to several sources Abraham was living with the William Butler family for about 4 years in the 1837-1841 range. Gene C of this Forum alludes to it in a thread for Sarah Rickard: Gene C Hero Member Sarah Rickard "And he was equally determined not to marry her (Mary Todd) In fact, he was so dtermined that he proposed within a year to another girl. He was thirty two at the time, the girl he proposed to was half that age. She was Sarah Rickard, the little sister of Mrs. Butler, at whose house Lincoln had been boarding for four years." from Lincloln the Unknown by Dale Carnegie. p63 The author seems to have borrowed a lot from William Hendon on the early life of Lincoln, so is there any truth to this? ************************************* Papers of Abraham Lincoln Digital Library Barret, Sarah Rickard Born: 1824-03-02 Fauquier County, Virginia Died: 1911-10-25 Kansas City, Missouri Flourished: 1830-1850 Sangamon County, Illinois Alternate name: Rickard Sarah moved from Virginia to Sangamon County, Illinois, along with her parents and siblings in 1830. Sarah's older sister Elizabeth married to William Butler, a close friend and political ally of Abraham Lincoln. As a young girl, Sarah spent much time in the home of her sister and brother-in-law, and there she became acquainted with Lincoln. According to Sarah as well as Lincoln's close friend Joshua F. Speed, Lincoln proposed to Sarah in the winter of 1840-41, but she declined as "he seemed allmost like an older Brother." In 1850, she married Dr. Richard F. Barret, and they made their home in St. Louis. Joshua F. Speed to William H. Herndon, 30 November 1866; Sarah Rickard Barret to William H. Herndon, 3 August 1888 and 12 August 1888, Douglas L. Wilson and Rodney O. Davis, eds., Herndon’s Informants: Letters, Interviews, and Statements about Abraham Lincoln (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1998), 663-65; John Carroll Power and S. A. Power, History of the Early Settlers of Sangamon County, Illinois (Springfield, IL: Edwin A. Wilson, 1876), 97, 165, 613-14; Illinois Statewide Marriage Index, Sangamon County, 14 March 1850, Illinois State Archives, Springfield, IL; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Illinois State Journal (Springfield), 28 October 1911, 9:1. *************************************** William Butler Birth 1798 Death 12 Jan 1876 (aged 77–78) Burial Oak Ridge Cemetery Springfield, Sangamon County, Illinois, USA Memorial ID 19485 · View Source Butler was one of the "Long Nine" & when Abraham Lincoln moved to Springfield in 1837, he boarded at the Butler home. Butler was one of Lincoln's seconds in the famous duel with General John Shields. In 1859, Governor Bissell appointed Butler as State Treasurer, & in 1860 he was reelected for 2 more years. Bio by: Connie Nisinger Family Members Spouse Photo Elizabeth Rickard Butler 1808–1869 Children Photo Salome Enos Butler 1835–1909 Photo Speed Butler 1837–1885 Photo Henry Wirt Butler 1840–1915 ********************* Note in the Find-a-grave memorial for William Butler the mention that Abraham Lincoln moved to Springfield in 1837 and boarded at the Butler home. The 1840 census suggests the possibility, even tho the census taker has the ages off a bit, not unusual. Also, did the Butlers know Abe's real age. Wm Badler in the 1840 United States Federal Census Name: Wm Badler [Wm Butler] Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 2[Speed and Wirt Butler] Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 1 Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 2 [One is Abe Lincoln, 30-31] Free White Persons - Males - 30 thru 39: 1 [William Butler is really 42] Free White Persons - Females - Under 5: 1 [Salome E. Butler] Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 3 Free Colored Persons - Males - Under 10: 1 Persons Employed in Learned Professional Engineers: 1 Free White Persons - Under 20: 4 Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 6 Total Free White Persons: 10 Total Free Colored Persons: 1 Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 11 ********************************************** William Butler in the 1850 United States Federal Census Name: William Butler Age: 40 Birth Year: abt 1810 Birthplace: Kentucky Home in 1850: Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois, USA Gender: Male Family Number: 328 Household Members: Name Age William Butler 40 Elizabeth Butler 35 [Elizabeth (Rickard Butler] Salome E Butler 14 Speed Butler 13 Wirt Butler 10 Catharine Powell 20 Caroline Bird 6 ********************* There are also many other records for him in Springfield, IL for 1840, including letters he wrote with a Springfield, IL address. RE: 1860 Census and Phillip Dinkell - RJNorton - 06-15-2019 04:27 PM Here is the text of a letter Sarah wrote to Herndon: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sarah Rickard Barret to William H. Herndon. Connors Kan. Augt 3d 1888. Dear Sir Yours of the 20th ultimo is before me and as an old friend I will answer the question Propounded to me. Mr. Lincoln did Propose marriage to me in the winter of 1840 and 41, as was his costom he brings quotations from the Bible how [know?] but Sarah will become Abrahams wife. My reasons for refusing his Proposal was that I was young only 16 years old and had not thought much about matrimony. I had the highest Regard for Mr Lincoln and he seemed allmost like an older Brother being as It were one of my Sisters family Yours in friendship Sarah A Barret P.S. In April last I wrote you about this matter through my Brother John Rickard and supposed you had Recieved It. You can make any use of this letter you wish. Will be willing to furnish You any Information in my Possession in regard to Mr Lincoln life. S. A B. |