Maharba, can you post the URL of the page you are looking at? >

Also, if Abraham Lincoln were not included in the 1840 federal census...is there importance to this? IMO it is not that unusual if the census misses some people.>

I wish I had a link/URL to furnish but I looked at the 35mm film version. But I would guess that the Mormon LDS site and others have that 1840 Sangamon census online. As I say, the numbering of the pages is almost useless, and the names hard to really read. As others look at this listing I cited (for Abraham Lincon/Lemon/Lewis/?), you actually have to use your imagination to be sure that the 'Abraham' part is even that. And yes I think it is very worthwhile that our future highest Federal official would be located by name, in what should be his first census. I think that it might be remiss for a modern 'Lincoln scholar' to never bother to look at the very most basic original records, especially when it is so much easier than the past 200 years, to do. No long train rides to DC to pore over old original Census records. We've already learned one surprise: that in 1840 Lincoln was not enumerated with Josh Speed. And remember that there are many 'genealogists' yet who claim (future president) Abraham Lincoln is the Abram Lincoln in Hancock county 1840. So, we can say "they haven't caught up to actual history yet". Because that Abram Lincoln is the first cousin of (president) Abraham Lincoln, that is the son of Mordecai Lincoln (brother of pres Lincolns father Thomas). It is slightly possible we yet might find Abraham Lincoln had traveled briefly out to the Omaha region or even further west, in the 1840 census. My listing cited may be erroneous, yet. This is actual history, and it is almost comical it has apparently not been worked out, before this time.

(06-22-2015 03:09 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Following Susan's link I found Phillip Dinkel mentioned in By Square & Compass: Saga of the Lincoln Home by Dr. Wayne C. Temple.

Dr. Temple talks about the home in 1860 and mentions Mary Johnson as one roomer. He then mentions Phillip Dinkel as the second roomer.

Dr. Temple writes:

The second roomer was Phillip Dinkle, a lad of about 15 and born in Illinois. He perhaps helped the Hon. A. Lincoln, Presidential candidate, with the household chores. Mary tended to put on airs with her elevated position, although the Presidential race changed Abraham but little.

Young Phillip's mother - Barbara Dinkel - was a widow and resided at No. 54 on the south side of Edwards Street, between Eighth and Ninth, and must have needed an additional income. She lived near enough for Mary to have learned of her misfortune and to have assisted her. Mrs. Lincoln possessed a large and kind heart.

Barbara Dinkel, in 1860, was approximately thirty-five years of age and claimed Württemberg, Germany, as her native land. In addition to Phillip, she had two younger children at home with her: George, 13, born in Illinois, and Mary, 11, also of Illinois. Two elderly relatives lived with her, too. They stemmed from Württemberg, the same as Barbara did.

Where Phillip Dinkel went after the Lincolns departed for Washington is unknown. We do know that he died in Springfield on October 25, 1865, with consumption, the same dangerous disease which had snuffed out the life of little Eddie Lincoln in 1850 and probably caused the demise of Willie Lincoln on February 20, 1862, and even Tad Lincoln later. Phillip had been the eldest son of Mrs. Dinkel and worshipped at the First Baptist Church.

Roger, can you provide the page numbers for this information? thanks.

(09-15-2017 01:17 AM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  Roger, can you provide the page numbers for this information? thanks.

Yes, Donna. Please see pages 132-133 of Dr. Temple's book.

(12-13-2015 05:46 PM)maharba Wrote:  I know this Census can be a fairly dry topic which may interest few, but yet I believe there is a bit of a historical mystery here that is worth examining. So, I will plunge ahead. I asked: Where was Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 Census listing? My assumption is that all of us would at least say
Abraham Lincoln lived in Illinois in 1840. So, we do find a listing: in Hancock county, Illinois there is an ABRAM Lincoln. And, for more confirmation, I notice that several genealogists list this (1840 Hancock IL Abram Lincoln) as one and the same, the future president Lincoln 1809-1865. But, in my opinion, that 1840 Hancock county listing is for his first cousin Abraham Lincoln 1797-1852. He was the son of Mordecai Lincoln who was the brother of Thomas Lincoln (Abe's father). Mordecai and Thomas were brothers, their sons both named Abraham were 1st cousins. So, it looks to me that, over the years, historians and genealogists have either smoothed over, or drawn a blank in referencing Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 census. So, I'll keep looking to try and find where he was 'hiding' in that 1840 census. Any ideas are appreciated.

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You should expect to find Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 census with the William Butler family. According to several sources Abraham was living with the William Butler family for about 4 years in the 1837-1841 range.

Gene C of this Forum alludes to it in a thread for Sarah Rickard:

Gene C
Hero Member

Sarah Rickard
"And he was equally determined not to marry her (Mary Todd)
In fact, he was so dtermined that he proposed within a year to another girl. He was thirty two at the time, the girl he proposed to was half that age. She was Sarah Rickard, the little sister of Mrs. Butler, at whose house Lincoln had been boarding for four years."

from Lincloln the Unknown by Dale Carnegie. p63

The author seems to have borrowed a lot from William Hendon on the early life of Lincoln, so is there any truth to this?
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Papers of Abraham Lincoln Digital Library

Barret, Sarah Rickard

Born: 1824-03-02 Fauquier County, Virginia

Died: 1911-10-25 Kansas City, Missouri

Flourished: 1830-1850 Sangamon County, Illinois

Alternate name: Rickard

Sarah moved from Virginia to Sangamon County, Illinois, along with her parents and siblings in 1830. Sarah's older sister Elizabeth married to William Butler, a close friend and political ally of Abraham Lincoln. As a young girl, Sarah spent much time in the home of her sister and brother-in-law, and there she became acquainted with Lincoln. According to Sarah as well as Lincoln's close friend Joshua F. Speed, Lincoln proposed to Sarah in the winter of 1840-41, but she declined as "he seemed allmost like an older Brother." In 1850, she married Dr. Richard F. Barret, and they made their home in St. Louis.

Joshua F. Speed to William H. Herndon, 30 November 1866; Sarah Rickard Barret to William H. Herndon, 3 August 1888 and 12 August 1888, Douglas L. Wilson and Rodney O. Davis, eds., Herndon’s Informants: Letters, Interviews, and Statements about Abraham Lincoln (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1998), 663-65; John Carroll Power and S. A. Power, History of the Early Settlers of Sangamon County, Illinois (Springfield, IL: Edwin A. Wilson, 1876), 97, 165, 613-14; Illinois Statewide Marriage Index, Sangamon County, 14 March 1850, Illinois State Archives, Springfield, IL; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Abraham Lincoln to Joshua F. Speed; Illinois State Journal (Springfield), 28 October 1911, 9:1.
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William Butler
Birth 1798
Death 12 Jan 1876 (aged 77–78)
Burial
Oak Ridge Cemetery
Springfield, Sangamon County, Illinois, USA
Memorial ID 19485 · View Source

Butler was one of the "Long Nine" & when Abraham Lincoln moved to Springfield in 1837, he boarded at the Butler home. Butler was one of Lincoln's seconds in the famous duel with General John Shields. In 1859, Governor Bissell appointed Butler as State Treasurer, & in 1860 he was reelected for 2 more years.

Bio by: Connie Nisinger
Family Members
Spouse

Photo
Elizabeth Rickard Butler

1808–1869

Children

Photo
Salome Enos Butler

1835–1909
Photo
Speed Butler

1837–1885
Photo
Henry Wirt Butler

1840–1915
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Note in the Find-a-grave memorial for William Butler the mention that Abraham Lincoln moved to Springfield in 1837 and boarded at the Butler home. The 1840 census suggests the possibility, even tho the census taker has the ages off a bit, not unusual. Also, did the Butlers know Abe's real age.

Wm Badler

in the 1840 United States Federal Census

Name: Wm Badler
[Wm Butler]
Home in 1840 (City, County, State): Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois
Free White Persons - Males - Under 5: 2[Speed and Wirt Butler]
Free White Persons - Males - 15 thru 19: 1
Free White Persons - Males - 20 thru 29: 2 [One is Abe Lincoln, 30-31]
Free White Persons - Males - 30 thru 39: 1 [William Butler is really 42]
Free White Persons - Females - Under 5: 1 [Salome E. Butler]
Free White Persons - Females - 20 thru 29: 3
Free Colored Persons - Males - Under 10: 1
Persons Employed in Learned Professional Engineers: 1
Free White Persons - Under 20: 4
Free White Persons - 20 thru 49: 6
Total Free White Persons: 10
Total Free Colored Persons: 1
Total All Persons - Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 11
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William Butler

in the 1850 United States Federal Census

Name: William Butler
Age: 40
Birth Year: abt 1810
Birthplace: Kentucky
Home in 1850: Springfield, Sangamon, Illinois, USA
Gender: Male
Family Number: 328
Household Members:
Name Age
William Butler 40
Elizabeth Butler 35 [Elizabeth (Rickard Butler]
Salome E Butler 14
Speed Butler 13
Wirt Butler 10
Catharine Powell 20
Caroline Bird 6
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There are also many other records for him in Springfield, IL for 1840, including letters he wrote with a Springfield, IL address.

Here is the text of a letter Sarah wrote to Herndon:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sarah Rickard Barret to William H. Herndon.
Connors Kan. Augt 3d 1888.

Dear Sir
Yours of the 20th ultimo is before me and as an old friend I will answer the question Propounded to me. Mr. Lincoln did Propose marriage to me in the winter of 1840 and 41, as was his costom he brings quotations from the Bible how [know?] but Sarah will become Abrahams wife. My reasons for refusing his Proposal was that I was young only 16 years old and had not thought much about matrimony. I had the highest Regard for Mr Lincoln and he seemed allmost like an older Brother being as It were one of my Sisters family

Yours in friendship
Sarah A Barret
P.S.
In April last I wrote you about this matter through my Brother John Rickard and supposed you had Recieved It.
You can make any use of this letter you wish.
Will be willing to furnish You any Information in my Possession in regard to Mr Lincoln life.
S. A B.