For a presentation, I was looking at the entry for the Lincoln family in the 1860 census. I was wondering who "Philip Dinkell" was and found this interesting blog:

http://blogs.dickinson.edu/hist-288pinsk...d-in-1860/

Following Susan's link I found Phillip Dinkel mentioned in By Square & Compass: Saga of the Lincoln Home by Dr. Wayne C. Temple.

Dr. Temple talks about the home in 1860 and mentions Mary Johnson as one roomer. He then mentions Phillip Dinkel as the second roomer.

Dr. Temple writes:

The second roomer was Phillip Dinkle, a lad of about 15 and born in Illinois. He perhaps helped the Hon. A. Lincoln, Presidential candidate, with the household chores. Mary tended to put on airs with her elevated position, although the Presidential race changed Abraham but little.

Young Phillip's mother - Barbara Dinkel - was a widow and resided at No. 54 on the south side of Edwards Street, between Eighth and Ninth, and must have needed an additional income. She lived near enough for Mary to have learned of her misfortune and to have assisted her. Mrs. Lincoln possessed a large and kind heart.

Barbara Dinkel, in 1860, was approximately thirty-five years of age and claimed Württemberg, Germany, as her native land. In addition to Phillip, she had two younger children at home with her: George, 13, born in Illinois, and Mary, 11, also of Illinois. Two elderly relatives lived with her, too. They stemmed from Württemberg, the same as Barbara did.

Where Phillip Dinkel went after the Lincolns departed for Washington is unknown. We do know that he died in Springfield on October 25, 1865, with consumption, the same dangerous disease which had snuffed out the life of little Eddie Lincoln in 1850 and probably caused the demise of Willie Lincoln on February 20, 1862, and even Tad Lincoln later. Phillip had been the eldest son of Mrs. Dinkel and worshipped at the First Baptist Church.

Thanks Susan and Roger. I bet Phillip could tell a lot of Mary Lincoln stories. Much was going on at the time he was there.

Abraham Lincoln should be listed by name in at least 3 censuses, I would say. In 1840 and 1850 and 1860. The 1860 census of Springfield, Sangamon county Illinois has the Lincoln family listed between the Henry Carrigan family and the D. J. Snow family in District 16 in Springfield ILL. Along with the Lincoln family is the girl M. Johnson a 'servant' born 1842 in Illinois. I suppose that is a Mary Johnson? Then Phillip Dinkel a boy born 1846 in Illinois. It does not say for him 'servant' but I assume that's what he too was. Dinkell went on to serve in the Federal army, and I believe lived to at least 1870 listed as a Tinker. That he married and had one son with a name like Middleton Dinkel? I wonder who the girl Mary Johnson was, what family? In his wealthier years, I wonder who the Lincoln's servants were, and how many over the years.

(12-09-2015 01:04 AM)maharba Wrote:  Along with the Lincoln family is the girl M. Johnson a 'servant' born 1842 in Illinois. I suppose that is a Mary Johnson?

In a letter written to her friend, Hannah Shearer, on October 2, 1859, Mary Lincoln wrote that "Mary, the same girl I had last winter, is still with me, a very faithful servant, has become as submissive as possible." I assume this is Mary Johnson, but I think that is the only mention of her in Mary Lincoln's letters.

That must be her, must be Mary Johnson. Be interesting to know what family she ties back into, and why a young woman is living and working away from home. I was going to 'start a new thread'...but I don't know how to do it, here. Then I noticed this one with the Census in the header, so I just replied into here. If you google search Abraham Lincoln in Census (years), you don't find much very helpful. That is odd to me. When folks so much want to talk about a celebrity for a couple hundred years, but have almost nothing to discuss on such a visible topic as his Census reportings, that makes me wonder why. How come he is listed as
ABRAM Lincoln in 1850? I believe he made a cryptic comment once, that
hinted ABRAM was his name.

But if Abraham Lincoln was enumerated in the 1850 census as ABRAM Lincoln, then how was he named and WHERE was he at, in the 1840 U.S. Federal census? He was then 31 years old, where should we expect to have found Lincolin in the census year of 1840?

(12-09-2015 09:23 PM)maharba Wrote:  I believe he made a cryptic comment once, that
hinted ABRAM was his name.

I think he was clear on this matter. In The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln and also on p. 338 in the appendix of Ida Tarbell's The Life of Abraham Lincoln is this note:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hon: George Ashmun Springfield, Ill. June 4 1860

My dear Sir: It seems as if the question whether my first name is "Abraham'' or "Abram'' will never be settled. It is "Abraham'' and if the letter of acceptance is not yet in print, you may, if you think fit, have my signature thereto printed "Abraham Lincoln.'' Exercise your own judgment about this. Yours as ever,

A. LINCOLN.

(12-09-2015 09:23 PM)maharba Wrote:  That must be her, must be Mary Johnson. Be interesting to know what family she ties back into, and why a young woman is living and working away from home. I was going to 'start a new thread'...but I don't know how to do it, here. Then I noticed this one with the Census in the header, so I just replied into here. If you google search Abraham Lincoln in Census (years), you don't find much very helpful. That is odd to me. When folks so much want to talk about a celebrity for a couple hundred years, but have almost nothing to discuss on such a visible topic as his Census reportings, that makes me wonder why. How come he is listed as
ABRAM Lincoln in 1850? I believe he made a cryptic comment once, that
hinted ABRAM was his name.

There were census takers in those days, just as now. The person being enumerated did not fill out the paperwork - the census taker did. If you have ever studied census records, you must surely know that spellings of names, etc. were pretty much at the whim of the census taker. They spelled the way it sounded; they abbreviated for the sake of speed; they misunderstood what the subject was saying, etc. Reading immigration records will baffle you and screw up your search also because of the same problems.

As to servant "Mary," we are talking of a period when there were many young girls who left their own homes in order to serve as housekeepers in someone else's as a legitimate way to earn a wage or to support one's self. This was especially true once the Irish (especially) and Germans began to immigrate here in good numbers, but it had been fairly common among American families earlier who had to send their children out to support the younger children at home. It was an honest and respected form of labor. This could apply to single women, widowed ladies, etc. who needed income. Do we have a clue as to this Mary's age?

(12-10-2015 05:36 PM)L Verge Wrote:  As to servant "Mary," we are talking of a period when there were many young girls who left their own homes in order to serve as housekeepers in someone else's as a legitimate way to earn a wage or to support one's self. This was especially true once the Irish (especially) and Germans began to immigrate here in good numbers, but it had been fairly common among American families earlier who had to send their children out to support the younger children at home. It was an honest and respected form of labor. This could apply to single women, widowed ladies, etc. who needed income. Do we have a clue as to this Mary's age?

In their book about Lincoln's neighborhood, authors Bonnie Paull and Richard Hart indicate she was Irish. I think she was in her late teens.

(12-10-2015 06:05 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 05:36 PM)L Verge Wrote:  As to servant "Mary," we are talking of a period when there were many young girls who left their own homes in order to serve as housekeepers in someone else's as a legitimate way to earn a wage or to support one's self. This was especially true once the Irish (especially) and Germans began to immigrate here in good numbers, but it had been fairly common among American families earlier who had to send their children out to support the younger children at home. It was an honest and respected form of labor. This could apply to single women, widowed ladies, etc. who needed income. Do we have a clue as to this Mary's age?

In their book about Lincoln's neighborhood, authors Bonnie Paull and Richard Hart indicate she was Irish. I think she was in her late teens.

Fits my idea to a T. I believe that many such laboring children were as young as twelve when they were hired out. If I were Mary Lincoln, knowing her personality problems, I would select a young servant that I could mould to my standards -- not some elderly lady over the age of twenty who had ideas of her own!

If you have ever studied census records, you must surely know that spellings of names, etc. were pretty much at the whim of the census taker.>

I'll repeat.
But if Abraham Lincoln was enumerated in the 1850 census as ABRAM Lincoln, then how was he named and WHERE was he at, in the 1840 U.S. Federal census? He was then 31 years old, where should we expect to have found Lincolin in the census year of 1840? >

Yes. Okay, he may have listed ABRAM in 1850, the miss-heard hasty listing of that census taker. But did you check 1840?

I know this Census can be a fairly dry topic which may interest few, but yet I believe there is a bit of a historical mystery here that is worth examining. So, I will plunge ahead. I asked: Where was Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 Census listing? My assumption is that all of us would at least say
Abraham Lincoln lived in Illinois in 1840. So, we do find a listing: in Hancock county, Illinois there is an ABRAM Lincoln. And, for more confirmation, I notice that several genealogists list this (1840 Hancock IL Abram Lincoln) as one and the same, the future president Lincoln 1809-1865. But, in my opinion, that 1840 Hancock county listing is for his first cousin Abraham Lincoln 1797-1852. He was the son of Mordecai Lincoln who was the brother of Thomas Lincoln (Abe's father). Mordecai and Thomas were brothers, their sons both named Abraham were 1st cousins. So, it looks to me that, over the years, historians and genealogists have either smoothed over, or drawn a blank in referencing Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 census. So, I'll keep looking to try and find where he was 'hiding' in that 1840 census. Any ideas are appreciated.

(12-13-2015 05:46 PM)maharba Wrote:  I know this Census can be a fairly dry topic which may interest few, but yet I believe there is a bit of a historical mystery here that is worth examining. So, I will plunge ahead. I asked: Where was Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 Census listing? My assumption is that all of us would at least say
Abraham Lincoln lived in Illinois in 1840. So, we do find a listing: in Hancock county, Illinois there is an ABRAM Lincoln. And, for more confirmation, I notice that several genealogists list this (1840 Hancock IL Abram Lincoln) as one and the same, the future president Lincoln 1809-1865. But, in my opinion, that 1840 Hancock county listing is for his first cousin Abraham Lincoln 1797-1852. He was the son of Mordecai Lincoln who was the brother of Thomas Lincoln (Abe's father). Mordecai and Thomas were brothers, their sons both named Abraham were 1st cousins. So, it looks to me that, over the years, historians and genealogists have either smoothed over, or drawn a blank in referencing Abraham Lincoln in the 1840 census. So, I'll keep looking to try and find where he was 'hiding' in that 1840 census. Any ideas are appreciated.

I am no genius on the history of census taking, but I believe that it was often haphazard and catch-as-catch-can in the 19th century. If Mr. Lincoln was riding the law circuit or somewhat transient without a specified residence (in his name?), the census taker for 1840 may have overlooked him. Just a guess...

I seem to have forgotten what your purpose is in these posts??? Are you trying to prove that ABRAM was Mr. Lincoln's real name? Why?

No. Not trying to prove or disprove his name was Abram. But it had looked like both the 1850 and 1840 enumerations gave him as ABRAM. And, many times I have seen men in genealogy to go both by Abram and Abraham. A similar I have noted is Joseph and Josiah used by the same men, throughout life. Now, it seems certain to me that the Hancock/Nauvoo ILL 1840 ABRAM Lincoln was Abraham Lincoln, an adult son of Mordecai. Mordecai was, if I remember right, a successful talented and admired uncle of (future president) Abraham Lincoln. The son Abraham (first cousin to pres Lincoln) seems almost unknown and untalked about. But he lived fairly long, married, had kids. When Abraham Lincoln come through Nauvoo in 1858 campaigning, that 1st cousin Abraham had already passed away a few years prior. I still wouldn't be surprised if Lincoln had gone by 'Abram' for a period of time, or even if he had a long forgotten middle name. As you say, the scribblings of Census Takers have always been notorious for spelling and misinformation, but Census also too have brought out long forgotten information, just when you least suspect it coming.

So no, 'renaming' Abraham Lincoln is not the purpose of my looking at Census. It's just a standard thing should be/should HAVE BEEN done for so celebrated a personality in history as Abraham Lincoln. An amusing aspect of researching Lincoln is that there has been a vast amount of intentional misinformation --large and small-- added about him. People claiming to be great friends or having had encounters with Lincoln, but which never took place.