(06-11-2018 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:09 PM)kerry Wrote:  On January 16, 1865, Mary requested that Forbes be made messenger in the place of William Johnson (who I think had died?)

Yes. Johnson went to Gettysburg with Lincoln, and both became ill (smallpox or a form of it) afterwards. Lincoln recovered, but Johnson died in January 1864. Johnson came to know the Lincoln family in Springfield, and he was Lincoln's valet on the inaugural train. In Washington Johnson was a messenger for the Treasury Department but also did tasks for Lincoln when asked.

I was going to say it was weird Mary took a year to replace him, but apparently his son held the position in the interim. The position was in the Treasury Department due to the "color" issue causing problems with his White House employment, but it seems like he spent a large part of his time with Lincoln anyway. There was a lot of that going on, and it seems like the go-to place was the Treasury. Everyone who needs a position is referred there. Why did they need so many people?

On second thought, probably because the Treasury had control of the money and could do what it wanted.

(06-11-2018 04:56 PM)kerry Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:09 PM)kerry Wrote:  On January 16, 1865, Mary requested that Forbes be made messenger in the place of William Johnson (who I think had died?)

Yes. Johnson went to Gettysburg with Lincoln, and both became ill (smallpox or a form of it) afterwards. Lincoln recovered, but Johnson died in January 1864. Johnson came to know the Lincoln family in Springfield, and he was Lincoln's valet on the inaugural train. In Washington Johnson was a messenger for the Treasury Department but also did tasks for Lincoln when asked.

I was going to say it was weird Mary took a year to replace him, but apparently his son held the position in the interim. The position was in the Treasury Department due to the "color" issue causing problems with his White House employment, but it seems like he spent a large part of his time with Lincoln anyway. There was a lot of that going on, and it seems like the go-to place was the Treasury. Everyone who needs a position is referred there. Why did they need so many people?

On second thought, probably because the Treasury had control of the money and could do what it wanted.

I believe that Treasury was also the department that welcomed the first women employees.

(06-11-2018 07:04 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 04:56 PM)kerry Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:09 PM)kerry Wrote:  On January 16, 1865, Mary requested that Forbes be made messenger in the place of William Johnson (who I think had died?)

Yes. Johnson went to Gettysburg with Lincoln, and both became ill (smallpox or a form of it) afterwards. Lincoln recovered, but Johnson died in January 1864. Johnson came to know the Lincoln family in Springfield, and he was Lincoln's valet on the inaugural train. In Washington Johnson was a messenger for the Treasury Department but also did tasks for Lincoln when asked.

I was going to say it was weird Mary took a year to replace him, but apparently his son held the position in the interim. The position was in the Treasury Department due to the "color" issue causing problems with his White House employment, but it seems like he spent a large part of his time with Lincoln anyway. There was a lot of that going on, and it seems like the go-to place was the Treasury. Everyone who needs a position is referred there. Why did they need so many people?

On second thought, probably because the Treasury had control of the money and could do what it wanted.

I believe that Treasury was also the department that welcomed the first women employees.

Yes, there are a surprising number of female clerks, usually listed separately just as "Ladies." Cuthbert, Keckley, Mary's medium friends, and I think Stephen A. Douglas's widow all worked there.

(06-11-2018 09:08 PM)kerry Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 07:04 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 04:56 PM)kerry Wrote:  

(06-11-2018 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(06-10-2018 07:09 PM)kerry Wrote:  On January 16, 1865, Mary requested that Forbes be made messenger in the place of William Johnson (who I think had died?)

Yes. Johnson went to Gettysburg with Lincoln, and both became ill (smallpox or a form of it) afterwards. Lincoln recovered, but Johnson died in January 1864. Johnson came to know the Lincoln family in Springfield, and he was Lincoln's valet on the inaugural train. In Washington Johnson was a messenger for the Treasury Department but also did tasks for Lincoln when asked.

I was going to say it was weird Mary took a year to replace him, but apparently his son held the position in the interim. The position was in the Treasury Department due to the "color" issue causing problems with his White House employment, but it seems like he spent a large part of his time with Lincoln anyway. There was a lot of that going on, and it seems like the go-to place was the Treasury. Everyone who needs a position is referred there. Why did they need so many people?

On second thought, probably because the Treasury had control of the money and could do what it wanted.

I believe that Treasury was also the department that welcomed the first women employees.

Yes, there are a surprising number of female clerks, usually listed separately just as "Ladies." Cuthbert, Keckley, Mary's medium friends, and I think Stephen A. Douglas's widow all worked there.

I believe Clara Barton did also

Labor was in short supply during the war making new employment opportunities for women available.
In addition, women could be hired and payed less than men for the same work, and at the same time freeing up more men for service in the army.
Much of the Treasury Dept work was clerical.

More research shows that Cuthbert was the steward in 1865, but this seems to have been covered up for some reason. When the controversy about the White House came up, they blamed the steward, who no one identified. That led people to blame Stackpole, who had only taken over after Mary left. The appropriations committee would in all probability have spoken with her about the state of the White House, but did nothing but insinuate about it. There's a book that has the full White House inventory Stackpole did.

In 1801, they often note fire tongs etc., and the "completeness" of the beds. There's no mention of typical household items like scissors, office supplies, etc. In 1809, Jefferson, unsurprisingly, has a ton of fancy stuff, but apparently no silverware.

In 1817, Monroe ordered over $80,000 in European furnishings.

In 1825, there was definitely stuff in the house, but a large portion of the furniture was now "useless."

French did the one in 1849, where everything seems nice and new, but there doesn't seem to be much silverware.

On May 26, 1865, the condition of all the rooms was reported as generally bad. All the curtains were there, and some extra ones, but the ones hanging were all ripped. The carpets were all ruined. But a fair amount of ornaments were still there. There were generally a few blankets, napkins and pillows left in the bedrooms. There was definitely significant silverware left over.

Somehow the President's waiting room is the only lower room in good condition. There were 2 chairs in Lincoln's private passage. His bedroom and the one I assume was Mary's were also in good condition, and she left her pillows.

What confuses me is there is a room called "Margaret's Room." What could that possibly be? It was a fully furnished bedroom, "all in ruinous condition." Possibly a misreading of the handwritten account, but I don't have access to it.

French felt it had been stripped, but wouldn't say by whom.

In July, when the Johnsons moved in, French thought it had no furniture or tablecloths, beds, bedding, or household utensils. There were definitely beds left. It's unclear if something happened in June or what. It wouldn't shock me if Mary took the fabric-related things, as she had compulsive behavior in that area, but she left behind a lot of lace curtains, which we know she loved, so that seems to be a strike against that theory.

It's crazy how Mary's next 2 successors were dealt with. Mrs. Patterson milked her own cows, which she brought with her, and they gave children's balls, which sound very cute - but how would Washington have reacted to that in 1861? The Lincolns bore the whole burden of getting society to deal with "plain people." Then Julia Grant was as lavish and conspicuous as possible, and people were relatively okay with that. If Mary had been first lady then, I think it would have been a whole different story. The war explains some of it, but not enough.