My son Nathan asked me this question. He cited, among other things, that Lincoln served in the Black Hawk War. I then mentioned that Lincoln did not want the war with Mexico. He mentioned Lincoln's efforts at the transcontinental railroad. We went back and forth, as you can see. What are your opinions on this?

I am not qualified to answer as I don't recall ever reading anything specifically on this, but weren't the Democrats generally favorable and the Whigs opposed? So I would lean to "opposed." Lincoln was such a Henry Clay follower that I bet if Nathan can find Clay's opinion then it would also be Lincoln's.

Bill, I found this on Wikipedia:

"Clay also opposed the Mexican-American War and the "Manifest Destiny" policy of Democrats, which cost him votes in the close 1844 election."

I was thinking along the same lines Roger. I hope others weigh in on this. It's an interesting question. Plus, Nathan wants to hear also.

(12-02-2013 10:30 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I was thinking along the sames lines Roger. I hope others weigh in on this. It's an interesting question. Plus, Nathan wants to hear also.

You seem to pose the most interesting queries. I thought that most true Whigs, including Abraham Lincoln rejected the idea of "Manifest Destiny". Originally, knowing AL's reasons for moving forth in the civil war (he believed that seccession of any state was truly unconstitutional.), one would think that AL was in favor of the concept. Maybe I've made more assumptions than I should have, and AL is often "lumped" into believing or disbelieving ideas and movements, he was never even personally asked about, while he was alive. Historians or would be historians, at times, can make this leap, particularly with a popular figure, like Abraham Lincoln. AL was a funny guy, and rarely seemed to give or offer his opinion or thoughts about an issue, unless he truly felt strongly about it. Most of his conversations were steeped in parables and allegories, and therefore very difficult to distinguish the speaker from the characters of representations he used. In other words, it was a way of communicating for AL, which was "safe", and didn't require his commitment on a said issue or topic.
There is plenty to be said of the concept, "Manifest Destiny", but as it was an idea, which came out of the 19th century, though could be applied to many times, and situations. The "west" seems to almost always invoke, something "better" and rural or aragian in a group of living, works only to the extent that the group is somewhat self sustaining.

In 1844 when President John Tyler urged the annexation of Texas to the US,... Lincoln did not share Tyler's enthusiasm for teritorial expansion because, as he later declared, he "did not believe in enlarging our field, but keeping our fences where they are and cultivating our present possession, making it a garden, improving the moral and education of the people." (D. Donald, "Lincoln", p. 122/ R.P. Basler [ed.], "Collected Works of A.L.", 2:4)

I really feel that Jefferson Davis as Secretary of War was a strong force of Manifest-Destiny,especially under President Pierce!

I would think that Lincoln's opposition to the spreading of slavery would speak to his rejection of the idea of manifest destiny. So much of the political wrangling that was occurring in Lincoln's day had to do with which states/territories would be slave permitting.

Seward was the strong expansionist. He wanted to annex Canada but Lincoln did not want another war in the North. After Lincoln's death, Seward bought Alaska and hoped to obtain at least British Columbia as reparation for the claims that the U.S. had against Britain for violating neutrality and building the Alabama warship for the South.

Seward felt by locking up the west coast Canada would eventually fall into the U.S. pocket.

Didn't the expansion plan into Canada exist even before the CW had ended?

(12-09-2013 06:20 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Didn't the expansion plan into Canada exist even before the CW had ended?

Yes it did.

At the start of the Civil War, British North America consisted of two colonies on the far pacific coast, five provinces stretching from Lake Superior to the Atlantic Ocean and a vast area of unsettled territory in-between. Canada-West (now Ontario) was settled primarily by Anglophones and Canada-East (now Quebec) settled primarily by Francophones

As a candidate for president Seward supported expansion into Canada as well as such luminaries as Senators Sumner and Chandler. When Jacob Thompson and the boys started raiding the U.S. from Canada there was a great deal of support for invading and annexing Canada.

Knowing the British would not fight for them Canadian authorities decided to form their own country and defend themselves. The Civil War was actually the catalyst for the independence of Canada.

I believe there was a group of Irish Civil War veterans that settled in Ontario and built a road in some effort to further Manifest Destinty? Is my memory serving me correctly?

(12-14-2013 07:40 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I believe there was a group of Irish Civil War veterans that settled in Ontario and built a road in some effort to further Manifest Destinty? Is my memory serving me correctly?

Fenian invasion, right?
They were going to trade Canada for Ireland.

Yes, that is what it was called!

Reading the posts again I conclude that Lincoln was against Manefest Destiny. Logically that makes sense as he was against the spread of slavery into the territories.