+- Lincoln Discussion Symposium (https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussionSymposium)
+-- Forum: Lincoln Discussion Symposium (/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Abraham Lincoln's Legacy (/forum-9.html)
+--- Thread: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" (/thread-1348.html)
Pages: 1 2
Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 12-01-2013 10:03 PM
My son Nathan asked me this question. He cited, among other things, that Lincoln served in the Black Hawk War. I then mentioned that Lincoln did not want the war with Mexico. He mentioned Lincoln's efforts at the transcontinental railroad. We went back and forth, as you can see. What are your opinions on this?
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - RJNorton - 12-02-2013 10:58 AM
I am not qualified to answer as I don't recall ever reading anything specifically on this, but weren't the Democrats generally favorable and the Whigs opposed? So I would lean to "opposed." Lincoln was such a Henry Clay follower that I bet if Nathan can find Clay's opinion then it would also be Lincoln's.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - RJNorton - 12-02-2013 11:11 AM
Bill, I found this on Wikipedia:
"Clay also opposed the Mexican-American War and the "Manifest Destiny" policy of Democrats, which cost him votes in the close 1844 election."
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 12-02-2013 11:30 AM
I was thinking along the same lines Roger. I hope others weigh in on this. It's an interesting question. Plus, Nathan wants to hear also.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - irshgrl500 - 12-02-2013 09:05 PM
(12-02-2013 11:30 AM)LincolnMan Wrote: I was thinking along the sames lines Roger. I hope others weigh in on this. It's an interesting question. Plus, Nathan wants to hear also.
You seem to pose the most interesting queries. I thought that most true Whigs, including Abraham Lincoln rejected the idea of "Manifest Destiny". Originally, knowing AL's reasons for moving forth in the civil war (he believed that seccession of any state was truly unconstitutional.), one would think that AL was in favor of the concept. Maybe I've made more assumptions than I should have, and AL is often "lumped" into believing or disbelieving ideas and movements, he was never even personally asked about, while he was alive. Historians or would be historians, at times, can make this leap, particularly with a popular figure, like Abraham Lincoln. AL was a funny guy, and rarely seemed to give or offer his opinion or thoughts about an issue, unless he truly felt strongly about it. Most of his conversations were steeped in parables and allegories, and therefore very difficult to distinguish the speaker from the characters of representations he used. In other words, it was a way of communicating for AL, which was "safe", and didn't require his commitment on a said issue or topic.
There is plenty to be said of the concept, "Manifest Destiny", but as it was an idea, which came out of the 19th century, though could be applied to many times, and situations. The "west" seems to almost always invoke, something "better" and rural or aragian in a group of living, works only to the extent that the group is somewhat self sustaining.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - Eva Elisabeth - 12-02-2013 10:33 PM
In 1844 when President John Tyler urged the annexation of Texas to the US,... Lincoln did not share Tyler's enthusiasm for teritorial expansion because, as he later declared, he "did not believe in enlarging our field, but keeping our fences where they are and cultivating our present possession, making it a garden, improving the moral and education of the people." (D. Donald, "Lincoln", p. 122/ R.P. Basler [ed.], "Collected Works of A.L.", 2:4)
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - HerbS - 12-08-2013 07:52 PM
I really feel that Jefferson Davis as Secretary of War was a strong force of Manifest-Destiny,especially under President Pierce!
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 12-09-2013 09:33 AM
I would think that Lincoln's opposition to the spreading of slavery would speak to his rejection of the idea of manifest destiny. So much of the political wrangling that was occurring in Lincoln's day had to do with which states/territories would be slave permitting.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - JMadonna - 12-09-2013 07:08 PM
Seward was the strong expansionist. He wanted to annex Canada but Lincoln did not want another war in the North. After Lincoln's death, Seward bought Alaska and hoped to obtain at least British Columbia as reparation for the claims that the U.S. had against Britain for violating neutrality and building the Alabama warship for the South.
Seward felt by locking up the west coast Canada would eventually fall into the U.S. pocket.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - L Verge - 12-09-2013 07:20 PM
Didn't the expansion plan into Canada exist even before the CW had ended?
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - JMadonna - 12-09-2013 09:44 PM
(12-09-2013 07:20 PM)L Verge Wrote: Didn't the expansion plan into Canada exist even before the CW had ended?Yes it did.
At the start of the Civil War, British North America consisted of two colonies on the far pacific coast, five provinces stretching from Lake Superior to the Atlantic Ocean and a vast area of unsettled territory in-between. Canada-West (now Ontario) was settled primarily by Anglophones and Canada-East (now Quebec) settled primarily by Francophones
As a candidate for president Seward supported expansion into Canada as well as such luminaries as Senators Sumner and Chandler. When Jacob Thompson and the boys started raiding the U.S. from Canada there was a great deal of support for invading and annexing Canada.
Knowing the British would not fight for them Canadian authorities decided to form their own country and defend themselves. The Civil War was actually the catalyst for the independence of Canada.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 12-14-2013 08:40 PM
I believe there was a group of Irish Civil War veterans that settled in Ontario and built a road in some effort to further Manifest Destinty? Is my memory serving me correctly?
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - Mike B. - 12-21-2013 12:42 AM
(12-14-2013 08:40 PM)LincolnMan Wrote: I believe there was a group of Irish Civil War veterans that settled in Ontario and built a road in some effort to further Manifest Destinty? Is my memory serving me correctly?
Fenian invasion, right?
They were going to trade Canada for Ireland.
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 12-21-2013 06:34 AM
Yes, that is what it was called!
RE: Did Lincoln believe in "Manifest Destiny?" - LincolnMan - 03-24-2019 07:26 AM
Reading the posts again I conclude that Lincoln was against Manefest Destiny. Logically that makes sense as he was against the spread of slavery into the territories.