Post Reply 
Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
10-23-2013, 11:51 AM
Post: #76
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
I posted this photo long ago, but I think I'll post it again. This is Alonzo Chappel's depiction of 47 mourners at the deathbed. Holzer and Williams write, "Like no other artist before him, Alonzo Chappel had stretched the 'rubber room' into unrecognizable dimensions." This takes the word "embellishment" to a new level.

[Image: deathoflincoln.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 12:02 PM (This post was last modified: 10-23-2013 12:33 PM by Linda Anderson.)
Post: #77
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
That's what you call artistic license!

(10-23-2013 11:40 AM)L Verge Wrote:  I also suspect that O'Beirne might have had a little Irish braggadocio about him in claiming to be there at the moment of death -- maybe in the back parlor awaiting instructions from Stanton, but not at the bedside. I'm just thinking that he wasn't high enough on the pecking order to have been included at such a critical moment.

O'Beire wrote his letter to the Editor of the New York Press (published in the Macon Telegraph ) to correct James Tanner's statement in the Press that Lincoln had made a deathbed statement.

"No one has more respect than Corporal Tanner than I, and I do not write this statement to detract from any connection he may have had with the great tragedy. But I know him well enough to feel that in a correct and true statement of the terrible tragedy which so moved our country with sorrow and pity through every loyal heart in it and throughout the civilized world, he does not want any notoriety or importance attributed to him which does not belong to the truth and the facts. I do not write this now for the first time after a quarter of a century for any other purpose than to help in an humble way to fix the correctness of history in regard to the culminating point of one of America's greatest but saddest dramas-the uncalled-for and cruel assassination of that truly good and great man, the martyr, President Lincoln."

GenBank - Macon Telegraph, June 30, 1889

On a totally irrelevant side note, I looked up The New York Press and found that "Press Sports Editor Jim Price coined the name "Yankees" to describe the New York American League baseball team, then known as the "Highlanders".[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Pr...istorical)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 12:36 PM
Post: #78
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
He made that room larger than the whole downstairs of the Petersen House!

BTW: Just a bit of trivia, but I want to give credit where credit is due. The term "Rubber Room" became popular for describing the death room at Petersen's after Holzer and Williams used it in their booklet. However, they got it from a student of Dr. Terry Alford of Northern Virginia Community College. Leslie Leonard contributed an article to the Surratt Courier about the deathbed scene and used the term in her title - Abraham Lincoln and the Rubber Room. This was back in 1986.

I asked Harold and Frank to credit her in their booklet, and I believe that they did. Another example of getting a young person interested in the history and good things can happen.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Post: #79
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Found this image years ago and just stumbled across it....

I don't know what it is or where it is -- but it looks like some sort of "wax works" with a very placid, calm and thin Mary staring into space as if bored to death and supported by another figure who appears to be Edwin Booth.

Lincoln appears to be somewhat as if suffering from the flu or some other ailment.


[Image: k8zd.jpg]

"The Past is a foreign country...they do things differently there" - L. P. Hartley
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 01:56 PM
Post: #80
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
It also explains the deathbed photo.

"There are few subjects that ignite more casual, uninformed bigotry and condescension from elites in this nation more than Dixie - Jonah Goldberg"
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 10-23-2013 03:31 PM by Anita.)
Post: #81
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Laurie, You posted: "I notice that the Currier & Ives print includes VP Johnson being present at the deathbed, and we know that's not accurate; so I think we can eliminate trying to get anything from the lithographs."

I'm confused and it doesn't take much! I thought he was at the deathbed.

This is from the http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/hist...ohnson.htm

"Johnson wished to leave immediately to be with the president, but the provost marshal urged him to wait until order had been restored in the streets. At dawn, Johnson, receiving word from Secretary of War Edwin Stanton that Lincoln was dying, insisted on going to the president's side. Flanked by Governor Farwell and the provost marshal, the vice president walked the few blocks to the Petersen house, just across from Ford's Theater, where Lincoln had been carried. Admitted to the bedroom where the cabinet and military leaders were gathered around the president's deathbed, Johnson stood with his hat in his hand looking down saying nothing. He then took Robert Lincoln's hand, whispered a few words to him, conversed with Stanton, and went to another parlor to pay his respects to Mary Todd Lincoln. Somberly, he walked back to Kirkwood House. There, in his parlor, at ten o'clock that morning after Lincoln's death, Johnson took the oath of office from Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 03:52 PM
Post: #82
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Anita,

I am going to have to re-check this, but I thought that Johnson left before the final moments. My apologies if I mis-spoke.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 03:58 PM
Post: #83
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Johnson wasn't there long because Mrs. Lincoln didn't like him. It also probably wouldn't have looked right if he was hanging around waiting for President Lincoln to die.

So when is this "Old Enough To Know Better" supposed to kick in?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 04:06 PM
Post: #84
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Here's an interesting site about the various depictions of the death scene.

http://antiqueprintsblog.blogspot.com/20...olns.html.

So far, I'm finding sites that carry the two thoughts of whether or not Johnson was present. Most are saying no, but some say yes. Help!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 04:16 PM
Post: #85
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Here's what I have on file; I hope it's pretty accurate.

Charles Sumner said that Johnson did visit the dying president for about two minutes in the wee hours of the morning. When Johnson heard that Mary Lincoln wanted to come in and see her husband again, he immediately departed (Mary and Johnson did not like each other) at Sumner's request. Johnson agreed to Sumner's "hint," and he departed the premises saying he felt the space could better be used by doctors and others who could conceivably help Lincoln. He returned to the Kirkwood House.

But Johnson was DEFINITELY NOT THERE at 7:22 A.M. Any depiction of him at the deathbed at the time of death is wrong.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 04:22 PM (This post was last modified: 10-23-2013 04:23 PM by J. Beckert.)
Post: #86
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
I guess that may also squash the story that it took a doctor and a barber, working "feverishly", to get the inebriated Johnson in a state where he was presentable. Or could that be the reason he departed so quickly?

"There are few subjects that ignite more casual, uninformed bigotry and condescension from elites in this nation more than Dixie - Jonah Goldberg"
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 05:11 PM
Post: #87
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
(10-23-2013 01:42 PM)BettyO Wrote:  Found this image years ago and just stumbled across it....

I don't know what it is or where it is -- but it looks like some sort of "wax works" with a very placid, calm and thin Mary staring into space as if bored to death and supported by another figure who appears to be Edwin Booth.

Lincoln appears to be somewhat as if suffering from the flu or some other ailment.


[Image: k8zd.jpg]

And who is the lady taking the picture? I didn't know there were such cameras in 1865!

Bill Nash
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-23-2013, 05:46 PM (This post was last modified: 10-23-2013 05:47 PM by Anita.)
Post: #88
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
Roger, thanks for the clarification re: Johnson. It's no wonder students get confused. Here's a site with 11 different deathbed depictions.
http://faculty.cua.edu/johnsong/lincoln/...d%202.html I like the one with the angels. Proves Stanton said angels! Angel

   

Linda, thanks for tracking down O'beirne's papers. In his documentation for the reward he writes "...I remained near our beloved & lamented president until his death hour and in constant proximity to Mr. Stanton..." This was in written in Dec. 1865.

O'beirne on the other hand may have been there at the time of death. Since he wasn't family, a high ranking gov't. official, Senator, or physician he may have just stood in the doorway or back by the window out of the way. Because he was there in an official capacity reporting to Stanton, he may not have been depicted in lithographs because he wasn't a nationally know figure.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-24-2013, 04:30 AM
Post: #89
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
(10-23-2013 04:22 PM)J. Beckert Wrote:  Or could that be the reason he departed so quickly?

You may be on to something, Joe. There is a theory (unproven) that Johnson could have been involved in an activity in his room that he wanted to get back to.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-24-2013, 05:14 AM
Post: #90
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?"
(10-23-2013 05:11 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  
(10-23-2013 01:42 PM)BettyO Wrote:  Found this image years ago and just stumbled across it....

I don't know what it is or where it is -- but it looks like some sort of "wax works" with a very placid, calm and thin Mary staring into space as if bored to death and supported by another figure who appears to be Edwin Booth.

Lincoln appears to be somewhat as if suffering from the flu or some other ailment.


[Image: k8zd.jpg]

And who is the lady taking the picture? I didn't know there were such cameras in 1865!


Quote:And who is the lady taking the picture? I didn't know there were such cameras in 1865!

I think she was one of Gardner's assistant's, Bill....a little known lady photographer, "Tammy O'Sullivan".... she was known for experimenting with odd camera devices. I think this was the early forerunner for the Poloroid.

"The Past is a foreign country...they do things differently there" - L. P. Hartley
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)