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+--- Thread: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" (/thread-165.html)
Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - LincolnMan - 08-03-2012 10:07 AM
Stanton's death bed quote- what do you think: Now he belongs to the ages or angels? What does the literature mostly support?
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - BettyO - 08-03-2012 10:14 AM
I've heard as well as read, both ways, Bill. However, I think that the verbiage "He now belongs to the Ages" is the most oft quoted. With the heightened emotions running throughout the room and the Peterson House entirely, I think that Stanton's words could have been either "Ages" or "Angels"....when that pencil broke, we lost the exact words, but the meaning can be quite the same....
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - RJNorton - 08-03-2012 10:47 AM
Excellent question, Bill. I'll go with "ages" as I believe John Hay, present at the deathbed, maintained (many years later, however) that Stanton said "ages."
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - Gene C - 08-03-2012 10:57 AM
I'm sentimental. I'll go this time with what I would like to believe. "Angels"
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - LincolnMan - 08-03-2012 10:57 AM
Roger: since you mentioned John Hay- I plan on visiting his grave soon. He is buried in Cleveland. I've not been to his grave as yet. I recall that Stanton's quote is inscribed inside Lincoln's tomb. I don't remember if it says ages or angels.
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - Lindsey - 08-03-2012 11:09 AM
I'm going to guess angels bc that seems more with the Victorian mindset...
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - Rob Wick - 08-03-2012 11:11 AM
Bill,
I have the picture right in front of me as I'm typing. It says "ages" and so do I.
Best
Rob
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - Gene C - 08-03-2012 11:15 AM
(08-03-2012 11:09 AM)Lindsey Wrote: I'm going to guess angels bc that seems more with the Victorian mindset...
that's the first time I've been told I have a Victorian mindset...thanks Lindesy
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - RJNorton - 08-03-2012 01:32 PM
There is a very good article on this topic here.
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - LincolnMan - 08-03-2012 01:52 PM
Roger: that is a great article. So it makes a case for "ages" rather than "angels"- if a comment from Stanton like that was made at all!
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - LincolnMan - 08-04-2012 07:32 AM
In either case, the words convey something about the "Lincolns" we've learned to know-the secular Lincoln (reflected in "ages") and the Lincoln that was part of the work of Providence (reflected by "angels"). Both have important implications for our understanding of him.
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - HerbS - 08-04-2012 01:01 PM
I feel that "Ages"because he will never be forgotten in History! Angels works also because of what he did for Mankind!
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - Jim Garrett - 08-04-2012 08:21 PM
I have to go with the Tanner version of angels. James Tanner was there to write down the final moments in the death room, unfortunately, his pencil broke. He may have been listening very intently so he could go back to his room next door and transcribe the events. While I don't know when anyone first recorded Stanton's prophetic words, my money is on James Tanner writing it down immediateley after the event.
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - LincolnMan - 08-08-2012 09:43 PM
Lincoln's tomb goes with "ages."
RE: Your guess: "angels" or "ages?" - RJNorton - 08-09-2012 05:50 AM
My opinion is "ages." What I find a little surprising is Gideon Welles apparently didn't hear this at all although he was there. Or perhaps he did and chose not to include them. It's not in his diary.
Welles described the scene as follows:
"The room was small and overcrowded. The surgeons and members of the cabinet were as many as should have been in the room, but there were many more, and the hall and other rooms in the front or main house were full… A door which opened upon a porch or gallery, and also the windows, were kept open for fresh air. The night was dark, cloudy, and damp, and about six it began to rain. I remained in the room until then without sitting or leaving it, when, there being a vacant chair which some one left at the foot of the bed, I occupied it for nearly two hours, listening to the heavy groans and witnessing the wasting life of the good and great man who was expiring before me. About 6 A.M. I experienced a feeling of faintness, and for the first time after entering the room a little past eleven I left it and the house and took a short walk in the open air… A little before seven I went into the room where the dying President was rapidly drawing near the closing moments. His wife soon after made her last visit to him. The death struggle had begun. Robert, his son, stood with several others at the head of the bed. He, bore himself well but on two occasions gave way to overpowering grief and sobbed aloud, turning his head and leaning on the shoulder of Senator Sumner. The respiration of the President became suspended at intervals and at last entirely ceased at twenty-two minutes past seven."