Mary's Reputation

[Jennie]

Did you know the biography of Sarah Polk (the decent one....) was also by an MD? Just a random fact here.

Sarah Childress Polk: A Biography of the Remarkable First Lady
John Reed Bumgarner

[HerbS]

After reading Tom Emery's book about Eddie Lincoln. I now have more empathy towards Mary Lincoln and the grief they went through upon Eddie's early death.The story of her grief and depression was"gut wrenching"

[RJNorton]

Thank you, Herb, for mentioning Tom Emery's book.

If anyone would like to purchase it I have instructions at the bottom of my web page here.

[Donna McCreary]

(07-16-2012 09:40 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  I read that an autopsy on Mary Lincoln revealed she had a brain tumor. This was found while I was reading the Civil War Times Illustrated magazine of November 1968. The author of the article was Patricia Bell ("Mary Todd Lincoln- A Profile"). I was somewhat stunned. I don't remember hearing anywhere that Mrs. Lincoln was found to have such a tumor. Could it be that her behaviors (at least some of them) were in some way directly the result of the tumor? It is certainly food for thought.

I have read that there never was an autopsy performed. Contradictory history is so much fun.

[RJNorton]

Hi Donna. This is also what I have read- there was no autopsy or even any kind of post mortem examination of her body. However, I think some teachers must teach this to their students because I have received this "brain tumor" question from youngsters.

I also have read two accounts of the "Love is Eternal" ring. In one account it was still on her finger when she was buried. In another, the ring had been removed from her finger and placed in her hands when she was buried. Have you ever read anything on that?

[LincolnMan]

Roger: never heard the ring might not be on her finger-hope Donna has info for us. Yes, history is an ever changing thing-even though really it is done and in the past!

[Donna McCreary]

According to Mary's sister, Elizabeth Edwards, Mary was not wearing her wedding ring at the time of her death. Elizabeth found it and placed it on Mary's finger. It was reported that when Mary's body was viewed, the ring was visible and that she was buried wearing the ring.

[LincolnMan]

Donna-or anyone in the Forum: Any idea of how many statues there are of Mary Lincoln?

[Donna McCreary]

(08-02-2012 10:08 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Donna-or anyone in the Forum: Any idea of how many statues there are of Mary Lincoln?

I know of two -- one in Racine, Wisconsin and one in Springfield, Illinois. Mary is depicted with Abraham in both of the statues.

[Tom Emery]

I'm with Laurie and the rest -- I have great sympathy for Mary.

In 1969, Dorothy Cashman, who I believe was the wife of the Lincoln Tomb custodian, wrote (in so many words) that "the blackest spot in our American history is the way that Mary Lincoln has been treated."

I think it's pretty clear she suffered from emotional imbalances -- some have argued manic-depression, which fits her mood swings, temper, reckless spending, etc. Losing three children and having a husband shot while sitting next to you would not have helped. But the Mary Todd haters always seem to have an answer -- they argue that everyone lost children in that day, and many sons were lost in the Civil War, so you can't give Mary a break. Seems to me that, if you hate Mary, you can't give her a break, period.

Personally, I don't have much respect for Herndon. I recognize the value of some of his Lincoln insights, which only he would have seen. But, I think he went way overboard in his rants on Mary. Granted, as Roger correctly points out, her tantrums against Mrs. Ord, etc. were not Herndon territory. But, I still don't like Herndon.

Credible historians note that Mary had a warm side, was very maternal, well-read, well-spoken, and quite charming. Was she this was all of the time? Of course not, but then again, who is?

I think far too much has been made of Mary's bad qualities, and not enough has been made of her good qualities. I'm glad to see others are sympathetic in this symposium. It seems to me that the winds of perception may be changing in Mary Todd's favor, after many decades of scorn. At least, it seems that not as many people rip her as once did.

[HerbS]

Tom,I agree with you 100%.After reading"Mary Todd Lincoln"by Jean Baker,my eyes were opened to "Give Mary A Break"!

[Donna McCreary]

While Jean Baker's book is considered to be one of the best biographies of ML, I must share information given to me many years ago: "Read with caution." A former curator of the Mary Todd Lincoln House once told me that she found over 100 mistakes in the first two chapters of the book. I confess, I have not found that many in the first two chapters; I have found about 60 problems. Some of the mistakes including the story that Mary "appeared, no doubt proudly . . before her stepmother" during the hoop skirt incident. In reality, Mary had managed to sneek out the door and was half way down the walk trying to avoid her stepmother. (this is well documented in a letter written by Mary's stepcousin, Elizabeth Humphries Norris) Another mistake of Baker's which has now been quoted by many historians is the story about Mary being called "Satan's Limb." According to Baker, ". . the epithet "Satan's limb" was so often applied by the wicked stepmother that the children came to use it ironically." Baker documents this story from the K. Helm book. However, according to Helm, "Satan's Limb" was a phrased used by Mammy Sally. While the term may still mean the same thing, there is a difference between being called "Satan's Limb" by a beloved, elderly mammy and one's stepmother.

Now, when I read the book, I mark it heavily with different colored highlighters. When I find something to be incorrect, I use a pink highlighter. There are far too many pink marks in my copy.

I still recommend reading the book, but if you plan to use it as a source, be sure to check the orginial source.

[HerbS]

Donna,Thanks for your information and advice!You have reopened my eyes to always look at things--"He said,She said,The Truth is somewhere in the middle"! This now makes me think that depression played a bigger role in her life than we will probably ever know.

[Tom Emery]

In light of Donna's comments, I'd be interested to know what all of you thought about Catherine Clinton's recent book on Mary Lincoln.

I've sourced it, and found it very well done. What do you think?

[RJNorton]

I don't know enough about Catherine Clinton's book to comment, Tom, but one of my favorite Mary Lincoln biographies is probably Dr. William Augustus Evans' Mrs. Abraham Lincoln: A Study of Her Personality and Her Influence on Lincoln. The book was published in 1932, and I think Dr. Evans examines and explains her psyche as well or better than any other author. He wrote the book at the suggestion of William E. Barton. I like the author's style (my copy is falling apart), and the book has some photos not often seen in other books such as a picture of Mary's home in Chicago on Washington Street (now Washington Boulevard). Additionally the book has a series of timelines of important events in her life. It's definitely worth a look.