Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

Peter Taltavul · 11-20-2012, 07:28 PM

(11-20-2012 06:42 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Well, if JWB didn't shout "SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!" I wasted $100 on a tattoo.

J Garrett - love your response. If we ever meet up in D.C I will buy you a Brandy, Whiskey, Coffee, or Iced Tea at the Star Saloon.

Jim Garrett · 11-20-2012, 07:33 PM

(11-20-2012 07:28 PM)Peter Taltavul Wrote:
(11-20-2012 06:42 PM)Jim Garrett Wrote: Well, if JWB didn't shout "SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!" I wasted $100 on a tattoo.

J Garrett - love your response. If we ever meet up in D.C I will buy you a Brandy, Whiskey, Coffee, or Iced Tea at the Star Saloon.

You're on. BTW, I stopped by Congressional on Saturday and visited your namesake.

Peter Taltavul · 11-20-2012, 07:46 PM

(11-20-2012 10:35 AM)Laurie Verge Wrote: I can see Jerry's point, and it is a very good one - however, I do not think it was ad-libbed or spontaneous. I'm one of those who follows the line of thought proposed by Shakespearean scholar John Andrews a number of years ago in an article that he did entitled "Did Shakespeare Kill Abraham Lincoln?" Andrews begins with discussing the Shakespearean atmosphere in which the Booth family existed and carries it through the multiple plays in which tyrannical rulers are done in by heroes seeking republican government.

That said, I think that John Wilkes had planned what he wanted to say -- and I think it is quite possible that he planned it to make a political statement as well as to "confuse" the audience in order to time his escape. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I am also confused as to why Jerry thinks that turning off the gas lights was still part of the assassination attempt? This was Booth's big moment in the spotlight. He had done what he set out to do.

Turning off the gas lights - whether for kidnapping or assassinating the President is so far off the wall that even some of Booth's fellow conspirators - as far as kidnapping goes - saw that it was a foolish idea. Makes one wonder about Booth's state of mind. Maybe he had to much whiskey, or brandy at the Star Saloon.

LincolnMan · 11-20-2012, 07:57 PM

Fido: you make dog-gone good sense!

11-22-2012, 08:09 PM

I'm reminded of the old tale in 'Myths After Lincoln'-an Irishman said Booth yelled, "I'm sick-send for McGinniss!"

LincolnMan · 11-23-2012, 07:38 AM

(11-22-2012 08:09 PM)Hess1865 Wrote: I'm reminded of the old tale in 'Myths After Lincoln'-an Irishman said Booth yelled, "I'm sick-send for McGinniss!"

A cure if there ever was one! Smile

JMadonna · 11-23-2012, 08:13 AM

(11-20-2012 07:46 PM)Peter Taltavul Wrote: Turning off the gas lights - whether for kidnapping or assassinating the President is so far off the wall that even some of Booth's fellow conspirators - as far as kidnapping goes - saw that it was a foolish idea.

For a kidnapping, I would agree. But, for a murder it's been a device used by playwrights for years. It would make perfect sense to cover an escape. Why else would Booth have spent so much time with Spangler that day?

RJNorton · 11-23-2012, 08:39 AM

Jerry, I thought Booth asked Spangler to hold his horse and never knew (until he got into the alley after the shot) that Spangler handed the horse off to Peanut John. Where am I going wrong? I guess what you are saying is that the whole Spangler story we've been told over the years was just a "cover story" so Spangler could turn out the gas lights.

OK. Now I see what you are saying. I just checked your book, and on p. 135 it says Spangler was unable to turn out the gas lights because Jeannie Gourlay and William Withers were standing in a spot that blocked Spangler's access to the meter box. That miscue left the lights on as Booth was on the stage. I missed (or forgot) that first time through the book.

L Verge · 11-23-2012, 12:41 PM

What is the citation for that last paragraph? Your book is in my office at work, and I'm in my office at home.

JMadonna · 11-23-2012, 06:57 PM

(11-23-2012 12:41 PM)L Verge Wrote: What is the citation for that last paragraph? Your book is in my office at work, and I'm in my office at home.

I'm in Georgia & I have no copy with me. As I recall it came from Jennie Gourlay.

Linda Anderson · (This post was last modified: 11-23-2012 07:16 PM by Linda Anderson.)

(11-23-2012 06:57 PM)JMadonna Wrote:
(11-23-2012 12:41 PM)L Verge Wrote: What is the citation for that last paragraph? Your book is in my office at work, and I'm in my office at home.

I'm in Georgia & I have no copy with me. As I recall it came from Jennie Gourlay.

Footnote 78 says Ibid. Footnote 77 says: PIT, p. 75, Testimony of Mary Jane Anderson

PIT is The Assassination of President Lincoln and the Trial of the Conspirators (Pitman)

JMadonna · (This post was last modified: 11-23-2012 08:32 PM by JMadonna.)

(11-23-2012 07:16 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote:
(11-23-2012 06:57 PM)JMadonna Wrote:
(11-23-2012 12:41 PM)L Verge Wrote: What is the citation for that last paragraph? Your book is in my office at work, and I'm in my office at home.

I'm in Georgia & I have no copy with me. As I recall it came from Jennie Gourlay.

Footnote 78 says Ibid. Footnote 77 says: PIT, p. 75, Testimony of Mary Jane Anderson

PIT is The Assassination of President Lincoln and the Trial of the Conspirators (Pitman)

That is an error - see Styple "Generals in Bronze" p.297-301

Jennie Gourlay - Struthers & her brother Thomas recall the assassination.

Jim Garrett · 11-23-2012, 10:17 PM

Didn't JWB really say.."That's some sick tyrannasurus!", referring to Harry Hawk butchering his sockdolagizing line.

RJNorton · 11-24-2012, 05:21 AM

Facing the stage which side (backstage) is the meter box located? Was it left, center, or right? I think I have read that Spangler was physically located backstage on the same side as the State Box (Maddox testimony). Thus, from his angle he only saw the back or side of the man who jumped to the stage and ran off. He could not see his face. Spangler became angry when Ritterspaugh identified the man as Spangler's friend, Booth. Spangler could not tell it was Booth from his angle.

Jerry, my question is, "Was the meter box located on the same side as Spangler was located when the shot was fired?"

Jim Garrett · 11-24-2012, 06:32 AM

(11-24-2012 05:21 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Facing the stage which side (backstage) is the meter box located? Was it left, center, or right? I think I have read that Spangler was physically located backstage on the same side as the State Box (Maddox testimony). Thus, from his angle he only saw the back or side of the man who jumped to the stage and ran off. He could not see his face. Spangler became angry when Ritterspaugh identified the man as Spangler's friend, Booth. Spangler could not tell it was Booth from his angle.

Jerry, my question is, "Was the meter box located on the same side as Spangler was located when the shot was fired?"

Looking through "Restoration of Ford's Theatre", I could not see anything that would indicate where the gas meter was.