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Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - Peter Taltavul - 11-19-2012 08:46 PM
I have always wondered whether JWB - as an actor - had planned on shouting a statement when shooting the President, or if it was spontaneous.
Are there differing accounts as to what Booth shouted and when? Didn't Maj. Rathbone say that Booth has shouted something in the Presidential box?
I seem to recall reading from different sources that "Sic Sepmer Tyrannis" was the cry and also "Revenge for the South." Is there a consensus among historians as to whether both of those phrases were used? If so were both delivered from the stage during the escape?
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - J. Beckert - 11-19-2012 09:39 PM
Rathbone stated Booth said something in the box and he thought it was "Freedom".
Sic Semper is a given I think and most say it was said on the stage. There was a story that on the day of the assassination Booth asked someone if tyrannis was spelled with two "n"'s or two "r"'s. Anyone remember the source for that?
What I thought was interesting, because no one else reported it, was that witness Ferguson stated as he neared the wings, Booth shook the knife and said - "I have done it". Revenge for the South and the South is avenged have been reported also. I believe both were stated from the stage.
I also think whatever he said was part of the plan. I don't see Booth being spontaneous. This was his moment in the spotlight as a great Southern hero. I don't think he wanted to leave before he made a statement about what he had done.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - JMadonna - 11-19-2012 09:40 PM
IMO "Sic Sepmer Tyrannis" was an ad-lib line to cover Booth's exposure on stage. Think of it, people are watching a play - their belief in reality is temporarily suspended. Suddenly an actor jumps on the stage shouting something in Latin. What's your first reaction? Do you jump up and pursue him? No, you turn to the person next to you and ask 'What did he say?'
It froze the audience enough to get him out the back door.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - J. Beckert - 11-19-2012 09:47 PM
You make me scratch my head a lot, Jerry! You don't think like the other kids here, do you? Very good point and one I've never thought of. I'm not sure I buy it, but it is an interesting alternative.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - BettyO - 11-19-2012 10:21 PM
Either that or if the audience heard him plainly, they scream, "Speak English!"
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - LincolnMan - 11-19-2012 10:26 PM
Of course, no one really knows for sure. I like Jerry's thoughts on it but I do think JWB had already planned on the Latin expression for more than one purpose-perhaps, partly to confuse-as Jerry suggested-but also to establish the connection between his act with the killing or Caesar. He saw himself as Brutus.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - Gene C - 11-19-2012 10:53 PM
IMO, Booth was a ham actor and wanted to say something people would remember while he had the stage. I think it was planned.
Jerry, I gotta agree with Joe, and compliment you both. Jerry, you make me think; and Joe, you have a humorous way of stating things.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - LincolnMan - 11-20-2012 10:00 AM
Gene: We haven't heard from Fido on this?
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - JMadonna - 11-20-2012 10:14 AM
(11-19-2012 09:47 PM)J. Beckert Wrote: You make me scratch my head a lot, Jerry! You don't think like the other kids here, do you? Very good point and one I've never thought of. I'm not sure I buy it, but it is an interesting alternative.Well if Booth was following the original kidnapping plot - one important aspect of it was to have someone backstage kill the lights to cover the escape. If he was expecting Spangler to perform the deed it would have caught him by surprise to find himself lit up on stage. Therefore, it's logical (to me) that he did what any actor would do when a screw-up occurs - he ad-libbed.
The line he used seemed appropriate to him for the situation but I don't think he planned for it to be debated over its deeper meaning. It was meant to freeze the audience that the play was still going on.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - Laurie Verge - 11-20-2012 11:35 AM
I can see Jerry's point, and it is a very good one - however, I do not think it was ad-libbed or spontaneous. I'm one of those who follows the line of thought proposed by Shakespearean scholar John Andrews a number of years ago in an article that he did entitled "Did Shakespeare Kill Abraham Lincoln?" Andrews begins with discussing the Shakespearean atmosphere in which the Booth family existed and carries it through the multiple plays in which tyrannical rulers are done in by heroes seeking republican government.
That said, I think that John Wilkes had planned what he wanted to say -- and I think it is quite possible that he planned it to make a political statement as well as to "confuse" the audience in order to time his escape. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I am also confused as to why Jerry thinks that turning off the gas lights was still part of the assassination attempt? This was Booth's big moment in the spotlight. He had done what he set out to do.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - J. Beckert - 11-20-2012 11:48 AM
Turning off the gas was part of the plan when Booth planned to kidnap Lincoln which would have taken a lot more time that killing him. I don't see it being part of the plan at Ford's.
I agree that Booth's possible dual reasons for his statement are not mutually exclusive. That was very interesting, Jerry. That kind of thinking is what produces new angles on this.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - MaddieM - 11-20-2012 01:16 PM
i think it was very much planned. Kind of dramatic and artyfarty at the same time. Right up Booth's street, I'd imagine. He seemed a bit of a show off.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - Gene C - 11-20-2012 02:30 PM
OK Bill, you asked what I thought.
We have talked about how much time and effort Booth put into last minute planning of the assassination.
The deed has been done. He has landed on stage and has everyone's attention. He's an actor, he craves and relishes the spot light. Didn't he say "When I leave the stage, I'lll be the most famous man in America"
He's proud of what he's done. All eyes are on him. You think he's really going to add lib this critical moment?
Fido
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - JMadonna - 11-20-2012 05:31 PM
(11-20-2012 11:48 AM)J. Beckert Wrote: Turning off the gas was part of the plan when Booth planned to kidnap Lincoln which would have taken a lot more time that killing him. I don't see it being part of the plan at Ford's.
I agree that Booth's possible dual reasons for his statement are not mutually exclusive. That was very interesting, Jerry. That kind of thinking is what produces new angles on this.
Thanks Joe, I'm a mathematician by training so I guess I always think linearly. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. When something doesn't follow the straight line, I find it fascinating to figure out why or what happened.
The fact that I called Booth's statement an ad-lib doesn't mean it wasn't pre-planned. I'm sure if Rathbone could have grabbed him he'd have said the same thing.
RE: Sic Semper Tyrannis - Revenge for the South - Jim Garrett - 11-20-2012 07:42 PM
Well, if JWB didn't shout "SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!" I wasted $100 on a tattoo.