Will the real Thomas F. Harney, PLEASE STAND UP!

[Wild Bill]

Sorry, Betty, I should have dropped that line.

[BettyO]

Just curious...I'm unfamiliar with Mr Stelnick's research and work....

[SSlater]

(04-20-2016 10:39 AM)BettyO Wrote:  

Quote:Lewis Powell's report of his findings could have started the mission, improved it, or was something completely different. But it would have been approved by New York, and Richmond

OK, Bill - you've got me interested....Lew Powell's "Report"?! Never heard this before! What was Lew Powell's report and where/or in what institution is it housed? Can you please clarify?

Thanks!

Betty O. Please don't blame Bill for my vague and indistinct quotes. RJN , in his Post #20 stated "Lewis Powell had previously scouted the White House..."
I try not to ignore a reader's comments, so, I was answering his concern. So, a full answer should have been "if Powell had made a scout, then he would have made a report to his "handler", who then incorporated the information into the formation of later decisions. PS. I wish I could answer your question "What, when where is it housed? THAT would make us all smile.

[RJNorton]

(04-20-2016 03:18 PM)SSlater Wrote:  Betty O. Please don't blame Bill for my vague and indistinct quotes. RJN , in his Post #20 stated "Lewis Powell had previously scouted the White House..."

Betty, I am blank on where I read that. I do think I read it somewhere but don't recall where.
If I ever remember I shall post the source.

[SSlater]

(04-20-2016 03:34 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 03:18 PM)SSlater Wrote:  Betty O. Please don't blame Bill for my vague and indistinct quotes. RJN , in his Post #20 stated "Lewis Powell had previously scouted the White House..."

Betty, I am blank on where I read that. I do think I read it somewhere but don't recall where.
If I ever remember I shall post the source.

Betty O. I remember - see page 28 of CR. "Introduction"

[RJNorton]

John, thank you for posting that! I knew I read it somewhere. Betty, it's right at the top of the page John cited.

[SSlater]

(04-20-2016 04:13 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  John, thank you for posting that! I knew I read it somewhere. Betty, it's right at the top of the page John cited.

Betty O. It seems that we are working on some "new" history. Can you fill us in on where Powell was and what he was doing "earlier in the year"? Was he with Mosby then? Was there a different Mission in the works - at that time etc. ?
I apologize for pushing this off on you, but I moved into a small apartment last fall, and most of my research material is in storage, HELP! Thanx

[BettyO]

Quote:Betty O. I remember - see page 28 of CR. "Introduction"

Thanks, I'll check that out when I get home -

Powell, as far as we know, was in the Valley/Northern VA region with Mosby and his men from Fall of 1863 to January 1, 1865. He was not in New York (that can be documented; or known of) - he was never in St Louis, MO as far as we definitely know..... it was stated in later years by Powell's superior officers in Mosby's command; Captain Robert Walker and Lt. W. Ben Palmer, (Company B) that Powell was with the command up until January 1865. These recollections were further collerborated by General Bradley T. Johnson and General William H. Payne, CSA, who verified that Powell was at this time with Mosby - and apparently nowhere else. Both Walker and Palmer knew that Powell had been "dispatched" in January of 1865 to work with a "Maryland expedition" - which may have been part of the unit based in the Northern Neck of Virginia. Mosby had to know something. He could/would not have been completely "in the dark" regarding Powell's comings and goings. If Powell's direct superior officers knew; Mosby would certainly have had to have known as well what was going on within his command.

Quote:"Lewis Powell had previously scouted the White House..."

Again, this is from Bates' Lincoln in the Telegraph Office - Could be true. Powell supposedly told Eckert that he did so; however, this was sometime in February 1865 as far as is known....

[SSlater]

OK! Then Powell was most likely working w/ Booth, (as far as we know). The phrase "earlier this year", would have been when the plan was still "to abduct." Since Powell was new to the District, Booth may have sent him on an orientation tour of the neighborhood. (To learn the escape routes?????) Whatever! But, it was not associated with the Harney plan. Agree?

[SSlater]

I have had trouble understanding the information I read about Harney. For Example. I've read that he said that before the war "He was a teacher. Right? That seems clear. BUT, how can that be? For over 10 years "before the war", he was in the 2nd U.S. Army Inf. He enlisted in 1853, for a 5 Year hitch, then "re-uped" for 5 more years, before he deserted and joined the 6th Mo (Confed.) W

---

(something is wrong with this computer) was he at teacher before that? (at 14? ) No Way! I have no proof, but he could have been a teacher IN THE ARMY, that's logical. When he was captured - do you suppose that he told the Union Captors, that he was a Rebel Explosive Expert? No way! Somewhere, they had a record of his time in the U.S. Army, he didn't want to appear that he was that Harney.
I have read that, after his arrest at College Hill, Miss. he was sent to Gratiot Prison in St. Louis.( PS Gratiot is pronounced as "Grass Shut"). Yet, I can't find him there. The Records show him in the Prison at Alton, Ill. After a short time he was sent to St. Louis, for trial. That would be Gratiot Prison. Alton is just across the Mississippi from ST. Louis, Gratiot was so crowded that they had no room for our Tommy, so he was rerouted to Alton.
I'm working on another item of interest. I've read that it that looks like Harney was at "Benton" (where he received a Free Horse from Gen. Rains.) What was going on there? (I hope I remembered the name Benton correctly) "Benton" is where they invented the "Coal Bomb". The Rebs used a Coal Bomb to blow up ships on the Mississippi. Remember the "Sultana"? Did Harney have his fingers in that Caper?

---

This thinking spree I'm on led me to a plan. I have a list of everywhere Harney has been throughout the 1850's and early 60's. Now, I'm putting together a list of Harney's in the same Census time frame. If he is in the Army, and in the Census, that eliminates the Census guy from being Our Harney. When I find Our Harney, I will make him STAND UP.

[SSlater]

I have to submit this information to correct my Post #40 5/1/1026.I implied that Harney may have participated in the Sultana disaster. I am not so sure anymore.
The "Coal Torpedo" was invented by Thomas Courtenay, in St. Louis, long before the war. Here's his story;
When the war started, Courtenay moved his family to Baltimore. Before long he returned to St. Louie, alone, to face a court case he was involved in. When done he met with Confed. Gen. Sterling Price and showed him the "Coal Torpedo". Price liked it., and commissioned Courtenay a Captain. He was to be paid 50% of the value of the ships he sank. His pay was in Confederate war bonds, collectable "after the war". YUCK!
Price sent Courtenay to Richmond. He met with Seddon - who liked it, and had one Coal Torpedo cast by an Army group and took it to Davis. (This must be the one that was found in Davis' office) Davis authorized Courtenay to establish a "Secret Service Group", to be not more than 25 men. I haven't researched this gang yet, - did they become the "Confederate Engineering Bureau'? or what? From all this I get the idea that Rains was eventually put in charge and brought Harney in to work with them.
PS. When Admiral Farragut steamed into Mobile Bay yelling "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"., he was no hero, the Torpedoes were water logged and weren't exploding. (How's that for a pin in his balloon?)

[Gene C]

I suppose when the torpedoes didn't explode some one else was saying " da#n"

[RJNorton]

(05-01-2016 11:26 AM)SSlater Wrote:  "Benton" is where they invented the "Coal Bomb". The Rebs used a Coal Bomb to blow up ships on the Mississippi. Remember the "Sultana"? Did Harney have his fingers in that Caper?

After Richmond was evacuated didn't they find a coal bomb on Jefferson Davis's desk?

[SSlater]

As you all know, I am not a bit happy with only a -half of the story. I want DETAILS. ! Read this and Enjoy.

This is from "Mosby's Rangers" by James Joseph Williamson (A Record of the Operations of the Forty Third Battalion...) Read more at https://books.google.com/books?id=ZBYPAA...PA369&/pg=

Notice there are differences between this "First Hand" report and the info we have read elsewhere.

(Someone asked me where was Mosby during this raid - this gives the exact spot where he was sleeping, eating and fighting.)
Pg366 " Saturday April 8. Command met at Upperville. Companies D and H were sent off to operate in Fairfax, while Mosby, with Companies A and B marched through Ashby's Gap and crossed the Shenandoah river at Burell's Island, swimming our horses, as the river was very high."

" Companies D and H were less fortunate, leaving Upperville on the 8th, they marched to The Plains... On the morning of the 9th (Sunday)...when Capt. Baylor gave orders to march, they set out for Fairfax, intending to capture a train HAULING WOOD TO ALEXANDRIA. "....

"The Federal Commander at Fairfax Station was Colonel Albright was appraised of their presence and immediately despatched (sic) a force in pursuit. While partially dismounted at Arundel's, Companies D and H were attacked by a detachment of the 8th Illinois Cavalry... I'm going to skip along here - but there are DETAILS, PICTURES OF PEOPLE - but not Harney.

"... beside Mohler, the Federals captured Thomas F. Harney of the Torpedo Bureau on special duty with Mosby, Richard McVey, Edward Hefflebower, and Samuel Rogers. McVey was badly wounded. (Note: No mention of Thomas Summers.)

The Official Records of the War of the Rebellion (The OR) misspelled Harney as Harvey.

[SSlater]

A train load of WOOD? What good could be derived from capturing a train load of wood? Was it "fire wood" or was it "lumber"?
Other reports of this same raid, said it was a "train load of horses" (or Mules). Now, that makes more sense.
If it was lumber, I can see burning the train, since lumber could be used to build Railroad Bridges, or other strategic structures - but not "capture" the train. How would they get the Captured lumber out of there? Steal Wagons?
As we analyze this caper, the more I believe it was a train load of Horses or mules - or even food.
A load of wood? That's like capturing a box of snakes. What good is it?