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L Verge · 04-09-2014, 11:23 AM

I believe most of you already know that I have fought the Kauffman theory tooth and nail for twenty years. IMO, Bill C. has hit the major point: Where is the primary source material to prove the issue one way or the other? To me, it boils down to legend on one side and speculation on the other.

wsanto · 04-09-2014, 11:39 AM

Thanks Bill.

I would really love to see some primary sources. Mr. Kaufman does not offer citations on that particular website.

Wild Bill · 04-09-2014, 11:47 AM

Bill,

See Laurie's prior post, it is legend or speculation, and your primary source has said two things and he died before he could clear it up. So much of history is exactly that. The heroes have been hanged and the victors have written the story.

Deo vindice.

L Verge · 04-09-2014, 12:19 PM

Thank you, Bill R, for supporting me. I fully expected you to blast me out of the water. Bill C, the points made on that website (which appears to be inactive - had trouble logging on) are the exact same points (verbatim) as what Mike stated in his 1990 article for Blue & Grey Magazine. No sources given.

Re: that double-issue from Blue & Grey - I have always wanted to see the two issues combined into one (without the other articles) and published "for eternity." I have a special place in my heart for this because I was the one who convinced the editor/publisher, David Roth, to hire Mike Kauffman to do the work on this, back when Mike was struggling to get recognized for his research and writing.

David called asking for information on how to get in touch with William Hanchett. Bill's book on The Lincoln Murder Conspiracies had been recently published and was winning accolades. I convinced David to contact Mike and make good use of the then-young man's research and writing skills. I also mentioned that Mike had built an extensive photo file - especially of the escape route sites as they currently looked (late-1980s). This would eliminate the time and expense of searching out photos for the story.

My build-up evidently worked because Mike got the job, and the rest is history...

Linda Anderson · 04-09-2014, 12:21 PM

(04-09-2014 11:47 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: Bill,

See Laurie's prior post, it is legend or speculation, and your primary source has said two things and he died before he could clear it up. So much of history is exactly that. The heroes have been hanged and the victors have written the story.

Deo vindice.

I looked up "Deo vindice." According to a Wikipedia article on the Great Seal of the Confederacy, "The bottom margin contains the national motto, Deo Vindice (variously translated as 'Under God, [Our] Vindicator', 'With God as [Our] Champion', 'With God as [Our] Judge', and 'Under the Guidance and Protection of God'). The Confederate Senator Thomas Semmes, in proposing this motto, took pains to stress that the CSA had 'deviated in the most emphatic manner from the spirit that presided over the construction of the Constitution of the United States, which is silent on the subject of the Deity.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_...of_America

Wild Bill · 04-09-2014, 12:52 PM

It just dawned on me, I believe where Booth broke his leg was popularized was in D W Griffith's movie "Birth of a Nation"

JMadonna · 04-09-2014, 01:49 PM

Makes sense - It certainly paved the way for the return of the KKK.

Rick Smith · 04-09-2014, 01:55 PM

(04-09-2014 12:21 PM)Linda Anderson Wrote: [quote='Wild Bill' pid='31634' dateline='1397062046']
Bill,

See Laurie's prior post, it is legend or speculation, and your primary source has said two things and he died before he could clear it up. So much of history is exactly that. The heroes have been hanged and the victors have written the story.

Deo vindice.

I looked up "Deo vindice." According to a Wikipedia article on the Great Seal of the Confederacy, "The bottom margin contains the national motto, Deo Vindice (variously translated as 'Under God, [Our] Vindicator', 'With God as [Our] Champion', 'With God as [Our] Judge', and 'Under the Guidance and Protection of God'). The Confederate Senator Thomas Semmes, in proposing this motto, took pains to stress that the CSA had 'deviated in the most emphatic manner from the spirit that presided over the construction of the Constitution of the United States, which is silent on the subject of the Deity.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_...of_America
[/quote

Linda,

Deo Vindice is also translated, and I believe more directly, as "God Will Vindicate."

Rick

RJNorton · 04-09-2014, 02:17 PM

(04-09-2014 12:52 PM)Wild Bill Wrote: It just dawned on me, I believe where Booth broke his leg was popularized was in D W Griffith's movie "Birth of a Nation"

It does look like he landed awkwardly.

wsanto · 04-09-2014, 02:31 PM

(04-09-2014 12:52 PM)Wild Bill Wrote: It just dawned on me, I believe where Booth broke his leg was popularized was in D W Griffith's movie "Birth of a Nation"

Bill,

I believe the stage-fall-break was popularized by Booth's diary entry (or the reports thereof). It became the "history" of the event very early on after the crime. Newspapers were reporting of it soon after Booth was killed in the same story detailing the events at Garrett's farm.

I wouldn't guess anyone thought the horse-fall-break theory was anymore than a cover-story until Mr. Kauffman came up with a convincing case for this theory based on his research.

Thanks--Bill C

Wild Bill · 04-09-2014, 03:58 PM

To put it in this diary is one thing--to see it in 1915 on film in the most technical perfect and popular movie of the day (except for blacks) is quite another

Linda Anderson · 04-09-2014, 06:03 PM

(04-09-2014 01:55 PM)Rick Smith Wrote: Linda,

Deo Vindice is also translated, and I believe more directly, as "God Will Vindicate."

Rick

Thanks, Rick.

"E pluribus unum (/ˈiː ˈplʊərɨbəs ˈuːnəm/; Latin: [ˈeː ˈpluːrɪbʊs ˈuːnũː])—Latin for "Out of many, one"[1][2] (alternatively translated as "One out of many"[3] or "One from many")[4]—is a phrase on the Seal of the United States, along with Annuit cœptis (Latin for "He approves (has approved) of the undertaking") and Novus ordo seclorum, (Latin for "New Order of the Ages") and adopted by an Act of Congress in 1782.[2] Never codified by law, E pluribus unum was considered a de facto motto of the United States[citation needed] until 1956 when the United States Congress passed an act (H. J. Resolution 396), adopting "In God We Trust" as the official motto.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum

"The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins...
"The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin...
"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States."

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/...trust.aspx

JMadonna · 04-09-2014, 08:04 PM

(04-09-2014 03:58 PM)Wild Bill Wrote: To put it in this diary is one thing--to see it in 1915 on film in the most technical perfect and popular movie of the day (except for blacks) is quite another

Don't forget that it was also declared 100% true by the nation's best known history professor ... Woodrow Wilson.

Wild Bill · 04-10-2014, 07:40 AM

The probably apocryphal story is that Wilson viewed the film sitting next to Assoc Justice of the US Supremem court Edward white of Louisiana (a former White League member in 1876, i.e., read: KKK without masks or white only militia) and said "It's all true, White, it's all true."

Wilson and the Progressives also brought Jim Crow to Washington and threw blacks out of offices that went to their race by tradition since Reconstruction.

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 04-10-2014 08:47 PM by Eva Elisabeth.)

(04-09-2014 10:49 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: I don't care how much adrenalin Booth had going through him, he could not have mounted that mare the way she was moving around using his allegedly broken left leg in the stirrup.

Peanuts Boroughs rested on a bench while holding the horse, didn't he? Is it possible JWB mounted the horse from that bench (thus without using the stirrup)?