Confederate Flag

[HerbS]

Jim,I never met MLKing,but I did meet Harriet Tubman's ancestor!Doesn't meeting someone great feel tremendous?

[Jim Page]

Hey, Herb--

You wrote:
>>Doesn't meeting someone great feel tremendous?

Funny, but that hasn't been my reaction, for some reason. In the case of Dr. King, at the time I met him (April 1964), he wasn't regarded highly in a lot of places, and I'm not talking about just the American South. He was a change agent, and those folks are always frowned upon by those who don't like the changes.

For example, Dr. King said to me, "What will you tell your friends in school about meeting me?" I replied, "I don't know. I haven't thought about it." He then said, "If you're smart, you'll say nothing about it. If you do, you'll be called a certain name by many of your friends." As we were driving home from Tallahassee to Fernandina Beach later that day, the radio was full of news reports about the rabble-rousing Martin Luther King trying to integrate restaurants in Tallahassee. The place where we had met him was a downtown Morrison's Cafeteria, which was a popular restaurant in those days. Of course, it was whites-only.

Years later, in Naples, Florida, some friends and I were having coffee in a donut shop late one night after a band gig. There were four of us; two white girls, a black guy, and me. The next day, my mom got a phone call from the Naples police chief that her son was seen associating with negroes in public.

My mom, who spoke her mind no matter when or where, asked the police chief if I had been associating with him or any of his staff while at the donut shop. The chief answered, "No," and my mom said, "Well, thank God for that; that WOULD be embarrassing."

That was circa 1970, and Naples wasn't a typical Southern town.

Things are strange and things change over time in this world!

--Jim

[MaddieM]

(08-13-2015 06:40 PM)L Verge Wrote:  And I agree with Herb agreeing with you 100%!

Your statement that hatred is held in the heart, not in a symbol, is so appropriate. When the news first hit about the church shooting and the photo spread with the young man holding a Confederate flag, all I could think of was, "That flag did not cause this. The world around him, as he perceives it, is what caused him to do such a horrible thing." Someone else asked me why he didn't take his vengeance out in the bad part of town, not on peaceful, God-loving people in their place of worship. All I could think of to answer was, "Cowardice."

I mentioned earlier that I live and work in a predominantly African American county. One of the local newspapers did an article on July 30 that tried very hard to be inflammatory, in my opinion. They took a statement by our black county executive relating to the need to remove offensive reminders of the past and expounded on it by using the Surratt House as an example of a slave-holding family who supported the Confederacy to the extreme. They came very close to blatantly stating that the museum might be an example of something that is offensive and needs to be torn down.

They had done a phone interview with me previously, and I was quoted on the historical aspects of our story as well as a little history on the rise of the Confederate battle flag in prominence during the 1960s - not the 1860s. Luckily, at some point they must have been on tour at the museum and were able to interview several other visitors who were African American and from the community. Both of those visitors praised our museum and also gave their take on what constitutes good history and what constitutes bad history. They expressed the need for everyone to learn about the past, not to destroy it, but to work to overcome the bad.

All I could think of was how much I wish those two could be heard on the evening news. Or, better yet, how good it would be for the instigators and agitators on all sides to read the books of Dr. Ben Carson, a black child who rose from the ghetto projects to become a brilliant neurosurgeon. I am not preaching politics here because I frankly feel that Dr. Carson is too good a person to be in politics of this era, but his views are so much like the American thoughts of old that they make my heart ache with what he's trying to teach us.

So long as people place the onus on a thing, rather than a person, as a means to explain/excuse all that is wrong with this world, we have no chance of changing it. As though banning a flag will make is all better? Could it be that those who shout loudest about the evil of this flag and what it represents are afraid to face up to the fact that evil does, has and always will walk among us? Society is broken in so many ways. We have to exercise personal responsibility as human beings and how we treat each other. We read so many bad things in the media, every day I read the news and often cry over what we do to each other and yet, I still believe that the majority of people are good souls.

[Jim Page]

(08-14-2015 05:47 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  Society is broken in so many ways. We have to exercise personal responsibility as human beings and how we treat each other. We read so many bad things in the media, every day I read the news and often cry over what we do to each other and yet, I still believe that the majority of people are good souls.

You are a wise person, Maddie.

--Jim

[J. Beckert]

(08-14-2015 05:47 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  So long as people place the onus on a thing, rather than a person, as a means to explain/excuse all that is wrong with this world, we have no chance of changing it. As though banning a flag will make is all better? Could it be that those who shout loudest about the evil of this flag and what it represents are afraid to face up to the fact that evil does, has and always will walk among us? Society is broken in so many ways. We have to exercise personal responsibility as human beings and how we treat each other. We read so many bad things in the media, every day I read the news and often cry over what we do to each other and yet, I still believe that the majority of people are good souls.

Excellent points, Maddie. Like I'd mentioned earlier, without the media fanning the flames of "rasicm", six months the ago no one would have batted an eye about that flag. If that lunatic that killed those poor souls that had invited him to worship with them had been photographed holding a glazed doughnut, there'd be a movement to ban them.

The kindness those people extended to that man shows a love that those who think they're making strides by screaming rasicm know nothing about.

It's a disgrace to their memory that the biggest thing that came out of their deaths is banning a flag.

[Rick Smith]

(08-15-2015 06:19 AM)J. Beckert Wrote:  

(08-14-2015 05:47 PM)MaddieM Wrote:  So long as people place the onus on a thing, rather than a person, as a means to explain/excuse all that is wrong with this world, we have no chance of changing it. As though banning a flag will make is all better? Could it be that those who shout loudest about the evil of this flag and what it represents are afraid to face up to the fact that evil does, has and always will walk among us? Society is broken in so many ways. We have to exercise personal responsibility as human beings and how we treat each other. We read so many bad things in the media, every day I read the news and often cry over what we do to each other and yet, I still believe that the majority of people are good souls.

Excellent points, Maddie. Like I'd mentioned earlier, without the media fanning the flames of "rasicm", six months the ago no one would have batted an eye about that flag. If that lunatic that killed those poor souls that had invited him to worship with them had been photographed holding a glazed doughnut, there'd be a movement to ban them.

The kindness those people extended to that man shows a love that those who think they're making strides by screaming rasicm know nothing about.

It's a disgrace to their memory that the biggest thing that came out of their deaths is banning a flag.

Very good point you make, Maddie.

I agree with all that you have said, Joe, and will only add that we have a need in this country of men who would reclaim their manhood and stand for what is right no matter what political correctness demands.

[Wild Bill]

A little flag irreverence:

Wisdom


>> The older we get the wiser we become. Last week I Took down our Rebel flag and peeled the NRA sticker off the front door.
>>
>> We've disconnected our home alarm system and quit our candy-ass Neighborhood Watch.
>>
>> Bought two Pakistani flags on eBay and raised them in the front yard, one at each corner, plus
>> a black ISIS flag in the center.
>>
>> Now the local police, sheriff,
>> FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, Secret Service and other
>> agencies are all watching the house 24/7.
>>
>> I've never felt safer and we're
>> saving $49.95 a month.---------------------

[L Verge]

(08-15-2015 12:52 PM)Wild Bill Wrote:  A little flag irreverence:

Wisdom


>> The older we get the wiser we become. Last week I Took down our Rebel flag and peeled the NRA sticker off the front door.
>>
>> We've disconnected our home alarm system and quit our candy-***** Neighborhood Watch.
>>
>> Bought two Pakistani flags on eBay and raised them in the front yard, one at each corner, plus
>> a black ISIS flag in the center.
>>
>> Now the local police, sheriff,
>> FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, Secret Service and other
>> agencies are all watching the house 24/7.
>>
>> I've never felt safer and we're
>> saving $49.95 a month.---------------------

There may be more truth than fiction here!

[HerbS]

I agree 100%!

[Gene C]

Good one Wild Bill

[L Verge]

Joe Beckert alerted several of us to an article online with the Washington Post that is now calling for the elimination of hoop skirts past and present because they signify "the Southern Belle on her high perch." The writer is obviously not learned enough to know that the multi-layer petticoats and subsequent adaptation of the hoop skirt was a fashion trend throughout the Western Hemisphere in the 1850s and 1860s and not confined to the southern part of the U.S. It was also popular here in the 1950s.
When do we call a halt to this ridiculousness?

I was sorry to read of the death of Julian Bond today. I remember him well (and with respect) from the civil rights movement of fifty years ago.

[brtmchl]

I understand that the Confederate ( Battle ) Flag is a highly volitile subject lately. My personal views on this subject are not important. I can see the view points of many that say that the Flag is a reminder of the wrongs of slavery. Some say it is the very symbol of hate. I can also see the view points of those who see the flag as a symbol of Southern heritage, State's Rights and pride for family members who fought and died for what they believed in.

I am not trying to spark the debate about what the Civil War was ALL about.

I have heard arguments that the flag is a symbol of hate because the ku klux klan made it their symbol. The Klan also carried the American Flag around as well. Old Glory also flew high above those evil Slave ships that brought so many unwilling people for the purpose of being sold to those greedy White Americans by greedy Black African rival tribes. It was a dark spot on this and many other countries. There is an abundance of shame to be shared Globally.

What I really do not understand is this new attempt to white-wash history. Like the Flag or hate the Flag, it was part of this countries history. Slavery was legal. The North profited off the backs of Slaves also.


Take it down from Capital buildings if you want. I am indifferent. I personally do not understand why a conquered Nation's Flag would be allowed to fly over a US State's building, but please, we have gone way over the PC threshold when we are removing the Flags from Memorials and Museums. How can there even be an argument suggesting the Flag be removed from A CIVIL WAR Monument or Museum. Let's not even get into the idea that some want to desecrate the graves of Confederate soldiers because there is a Political upside to pretend to be outraged lately. Our History is important to us as a nation, whether it is wrong or right. Even dark spots in History are valuable and important to learn from.

Here is yet another story about how we need to paint over a beautiful Mural that an artist painted, commemorating ALL of the Wars that the US has fought.

The Flags from all of the other Countries including Nazi Germany are still intact.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/08/393543-a...sy-starts/

[LincolnToddFan]

(08-16-2015 11:11 AM)L Verge Wrote:  Joe Beckert alerted several of us to an article online with the Washington Post that is now calling for the elimination of hoop skirts past and present because they signify "the Southern Belle on her high perch." The writer is obviously not learned enough to know that the multi-layer petticoats and subsequent adaptation of the hoop skirt was a fashion trend throughout the Western Hemisphere in the 1850s and 1860s and not confined to the southern part of the U.S. It was also popular here in the 1950s.
When do we call a halt to this ridiculousness?

I was sorry to read of the death of Julian Bond today. I remember him well (and with respect) from the civil rights movement of fifty years ago.

I remember being 12 years old and reading about Julian Bond on the pages of Ebony and Jet magazines. I dreamed of marrying him even though he was in his early 30's. Didn't care...he was beautiful inside and out.

RIP Mr. Bond.

[J. Beckert]

A little dose of common sense on an issue that the media has fueled and has those that are easily led running for the nearest cliff. In my humble opinion, folks....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/201.../32064685/

[HerbS]

Great post J.Beckert! I hope that common sense prevails!