French students have some questions

French students have some questions - Printable Version

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RE: French students have some questions - My Name Is Kate - 01-28-2014 04:43 PM

Lincoln himself said that his number one concern was keeping the Union together and that he would do it by freeing all the slaves or none of the slaves. So the plight of the slaves was a side issue for him. That is using slavery as a political agenda. After the first one-hundred-thousand-or-so deaths, don't you think that maybe he should have rethought his strategy? What other source do I need other than Lincoln himself? But I did read "Sic Semper Tyrannis" by William L. Richter aka Wild Bill, and a paper that he wrote entitled "Deliberately and Personally Conceived": Did Lincoln and the Republicans Intentionally Cause the Civil War?", plus as much info as I could find online, including parts of the book, "Freedom National: The Destruction of Slavery" by James Oakes.

I am not putting 100% of the death toll of the Civil War squarely on Lincoln's shoulders, but a good portion of it does belong there. Why the South could not see that slavery was wrong and should be abolished, I can't explain, other than that they liked too much the political power it gave them.

RE: French students have some questions - Gene C - 01-28-2014 04:59 PM

Kate, how do you account for the seven slave states that seceded from the union before Lincoln ever took office? What responsability due they bear in regards to the beginning of the Civil War?

RE: French students have some questions - inesclotilde - 01-29-2014 07:34 AM

Thank you very much for all your replies. We really appreciate! And we would like to thank the forum members for letting us ask our questions. We don't have other questions for the forum but if we do we will contact you again! Thanks to you again Roger Norton and all the members for your answers and your help! This is really going to help us in our file!

RE: French students have some questions - Gene C - 01-29-2014 07:48 AM

Kate gave me a very nice reply on the
"Why were the Radical Republicans so Radical" post #66

Thanks Kate.
And we think we have political gridlock today.

RE: French students have some questions - RJNorton - 01-29-2014 09:42 AM

(01-29-2014 07:34 AM)inesclotilde Wrote: Thank you very much for all your replies. We really appreciate! And we would like to thank the forum members for letting us ask our questions.

Inès and Clotilde, we thank you for joining the forum and asking your questions. We send our best wishes for receiving a good grade on your project!

RE: French students have some questions - David Lockmiller - 01-29-2014 02:07 PM

(01-29-2014 09:42 AM)RJNorton Wrote:
(01-29-2014 07:34 AM)inesclotilde Wrote: Thank you very much for all your replies. We really appreciate! And we would like to thank the forum members for letting us ask our questions.

Inès and Clotilde, we thank you for joining the forum and asking your questions. We send our best wishes for receiving a good grade on your project!

I was going to make a reply that began with a chronological series of photographs of Abraham Lincoln. I was unable to accomplish this task beyond locating and selecting the photographs that I wished to present. Perhaps our knowledgeable Roger Norton can add these photographs in a subsequent post to the benefit of Inès and Clotilde. I believe that Roger's website may have all of the photographs.

The four photographs are:

Brady's Cooper Union photograph that made Lincoln President - Feb 27, 1860
February 24, 1861 - Lincoln sitting at a desk in Washington prior to taking Presidential Oath of Office in March, 1861
Nov. 8, 1863 - "Gettysburg Address" photo
Feb 5, 1865 - cracked glass negative photo within a couple months of his death

The purpose of the photos is to illustrate the physical and psychological effects upon Lincoln as the Civil War unfolded. Last night, one of the commentators made a reference to President Obama's gray hair.

The old saying is that a picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes this saying can be overstated. But the saying is true in the case of President Abraham Lincoln.

But my original plan was to follow with a story that I had in mind from one of my favorite Lincoln books, "Lincoln Talks, a Biography in Anecdote" by Emanuel Hertz, entitled MAN OF SORROWS, (pp 583-84), as related by Mary A. Livermore:

The next day my friend Mrs. Hoge and myself had another interview with the President, on business entrusted to us. If we were shocked the night before at his haggard face, how much more were we pained when the broad light of day revealed the ravages which care, anxiety, and overwork had wrought. In our despondent condition it was difficult to control our feelings so as not to weep before him. Our unspoken thought ran thus: "Our national affairs must be in the very extremity of hopelessness if they thus prey on the mind and life of the President. The country had been slain by treason--he knows it--and that it cannot recover itself."

Our business ended, before we withdrew we made one more attempt to draw encouraging words from the reluctant head of the nation.

"Mr. President," we said timidly, "we find ourselves greatly depressed by the talk of last evening; you do not consider our national affairs hopeless, do you? Our country is not lost?"

"Oh, no!" he said with great earnestness. "Our affairs are by no means hopeless, for we have the right on our side. We did not want this war, and we tried to avoid it. We were forced into it; our cause is a just one, and now it has become the cause of freedom." (The Emancipation Proclamation had then been promulgated.) "And let us also hope it is the cause of God, and then we may be sure it must ultimately triumph. But between that time and now there is an amount of agony and suffering and trial for the people that they do not look for, and are not prepared for."

I saw him several times afterwards, and each time I was impressed anew with the look of pain and weariness stereotyped on his face. -- Mary A. Livermore

Heroes do not exist just on the field of battle.

Abraham Lincoln is one man who stood in time and saved democracy for the world!

RE: French students have some questions - RJNorton - 01-29-2014 03:01 PM

Be glad to, David. Here are the four photos in the order you listed:

RE: French students have some questions - David Lockmiller - 01-31-2014 02:09 PM

If it is not too late, I want to add to this opinion topic of "French students have some questions" the following illustrative example of President Abraham Lincoln's heroic compassion for his fellow man during the Civil War (in this particular case, a woman and mother)from the 1879 book authored by F. B. Carpenter, "The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months at the White House," pages 320-22.* The following is the narrative of the author:

No incident of this character related of the late President, is more profoundly touching in its tenderness and simplicity than that given to me the last evening I passed at the White House, in the office of the private secretary, by a resident of Washington, Mr. Murtagh, of the Washington Republican, who witnessed the scene,

"I was waiting my turn to speak to the President one day, some three or four weeks since," said Mr. M----, "when my attention was attracted by the sad patient face of woman advanced in life, who in a faded hood and shawl was among the applicants for an interview.

"Presently Mr. Lincoln turned to her, saying in his accustomed manner, 'Well, my good woman, what can I do for you this morning?' 'Mr. President,' said she, 'my husband and three sons all went into the army. My husband was killed in the fight at ______. I get along very badly since then, living all alone, and I thought I would come and ask you to release my oldest son.' Mr. Lincoln looked into her face a moment, and in his kindest accents responded, 'Certainly! certainly! If you have given us all, and your prop has been taken away, you are justly entitled to one of your boys!' He immediately made out an order discharging the young man, which the woman took, and thanking him gratefully, went away.

"I had forgotten the circumstance," continued M-----, "till last week, when happening to here again, who should come in but the same woman. It appeared that she had gone herself to the front, with the President's order, and found the son she was in search of had been mortally wounded in a recent engagement, and taken to a hospital. She found the hospital, but the boy was dead, or died while she was there. The surgeon in charge mad a memorandum of the facts upon the back of the President's order, and almost broken-hearted, the poor woman had found her way again into Mr. Lincoln's presence. He was much affected by her appearance and story, and said: 'I know what you wish me to do now, and I shall do without your asking; I shall release to you your second son.' Upon this, he took up his pen and commenced writing the order. While he was writing the poor woman stood by his side, the tears running down her face, and passed her hand softly over his head, stroking his rough hair, as I have seen a fond mother caress a son. By the time he had finished writing, his own heart and eyes were full. He handed her the paper: 'Now,' said he, 'you have one and I one of the other two left: that is no more than right.' She took the paper, and reverently placing her hand again upon his head, the tears still upon her cheeks, said: 'The Lord bless you, Mr. Lincoln. May you live a thousand years, and may you always be the head of this great nation!'"

* [For those who are unaware of who F. B. Carpenter is, he is the artist who developed the concept for his painting entitled "First Reading of the Emancipation Proclamation of President Lincoln" (to the Presidential cabinet) and was able to convince President Lincoln to sit for the painting over a period of six months and also to explain the historic circumstances of the subject matter in detail to the artist. All of the artist's additional observations made during his stay at the White House are a bonus to "Lincoln" history. The artistic work itself remains on display in the Capitol (Congress) to this day.]

I have a request to make of the "French students who have some questions." Please translate this example of a "Lincoln story" into the French language and read it to your class of French students as part of your project. If it is possible, please do a video recording of this effort on an I-phone (or other technology) and post the video on YouTube. Then, provide a link reference to the video to our honorable Mr. Roger Norton, host of this website, in order for him to post the link here. This post of my mine would provide the English version for the story; your YouTube video posting would provide the French version. I am almost certain that all those who have contributed a subject response to your request on this website would enjoy viewing such a video.

On a different subject, for those who participate on this website and like to be rewarded on all things current and important regarding President Abraham Lincoln, there is in the electronic version of today's NY Times, at the bottom of the presentation of today's newspaper, a section entitled "On This Day." Today there is written the following entry of notable historic fact:

"On Jan. 31, 1865, the House of Representatives passed a constitutional amendment to abolish slavery."

Without the efforts of President Abraham Lincoln, a non-combatant hero of the American Civil War, there would have been no Thirteenth Amendment enacted with the words written as follows:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Director Steven Spielberg made a recent movie entitled "Lincoln" which depicts this historic event. There are some on this website who dispute to some degree the historical accuracy of the movie.

RE: French students have some questions - Eva Elisabeth - 02-02-2014 09:07 AM

As you may know through your history lessons and research, Lincoln and the CW united the French liberals and republicans who opposed the empire and Napoleon II in favor of popular democracy. In celebrating Lincoln, they could criticize the emperor safely, without censorship. After the assassination, Victor Hugo and other republicans colleceted ten centimes from 40,000 donors (despite Napoleon's attempts to stop this effort) and created a gold medallion for Mary Lincoln on which they had engraved: "If France had the freedom enjoyed by republican America, not thousands but millions among us would have been counted as admirers."

You might also find this worth mentioning:
On March 12, 1864, Abraham Lincoln met with two leaders of the black community in New Orleans, French descendants named Jean Baptiste Roudanez and Arnold Bertonneau. They presented him with a petition demanding black suffrage signed by over thousand literate African Americans, many of them of French descent. The next day, Lincoln wrote a famous private letter to Louisiana Govenor Michael Hahn, in which he suggested that certain blacks should be allowed to vote:

Abraham Lincoln
Executive Mansion Washington D.C.
March 13, 1864

Hon. Michael Hahn

My dear Sir:

I congratulate you on having fixed your name in history as the first—free—state Governor of Louisiana. Now you are about to have a Convention which, among other things, will probably define the elective franchise. I barely suggest for your private consideration, whether some of the colored people may not be let in—as, for instance, the very intelligent, and especially those who have fought gallantly in our ranks. They would probably help, in some trying time to come, to keep the jewel of liberty within the family of freedom. But this is only a suggestion, not to the public, but to you alone.

Yours truly

A. LINCOLN

RE: French students have some questions - Don1946 - 02-12-2014 09:30 AM

(01-27-2014 04:01 PM)inesclotilde Wrote: Hey folks!

We are French students coming from Alsace and we have to do a file for a school project about Abraham Lincoln.

We would like to ask you some questions about him and especially what YOU think as American people. Thank you for responding to our questions

Did the American Nation need a hero (Abraham Lincoln) during the hard period of the Civil War ?
Why do you think Abraham Lincoln is still considerated as a hero nowadays ?

For many in France and other parts of Europe, also Latin America, Abraham Lincoln became a world hero, at least in 1865 when, as a martyr, he was embraced by people at all levels of society. Parents named children and towns named streets and squares in his honor. Monuments went up in several places. The French liberals praised Lincoln as a way of opposing the Napoleon III and the Second Empire. I recommend The Global Lincoln, edited by Richard Carwardine and Jay Sexton, which will give you a good idea of how different countries around the world viewed Lincoln over time.

RE: French students have some questions - Eva Elisabeth - 01-27-2015 10:47 AM

(02-02-2014 09:07 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: As you may know through your history lessons and research, Lincoln and the CW united the French liberals and republicans who opposed the empire and Napoleon II in favor of popular democracy. In celebrating Lincoln, they could criticize the emperor safely, without censorship. After the assassination, Victor Hugo and other republicans colleceted ten centimes from 40,000 donors (despite Napoleon's attempts to stop this effort) and created a gold medallion for Mary Lincoln on which they had engraved: "If France had the freedom enjoyed by republican America, not thousands but millions among us would have been counted as admirers."

I found these photos of the medal:
[attachment=1375] [attachment=1376]
This bronze medal was struck from the original dies used to make the gold medal presented to Mary Todd Lincoln in 1866.

It features a profile of Lincoln in relief on the front. "Dedie par la democratie francaise a Lincoln president deux fois elu des etats-unis" is embossed around the portrait, in English: "Dedicated by the French Democracy. Twice elected President of the United States."

The reverse features a tombstone inscribed: "Lincoln, honest man, abolished slavery, reestablished the Union and saved the Republic, without veiling the Statue of Liberty. He was assassinated the 14th of April, 1865." Below is the French revolutionary slogan: "Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity." On one side, a mourning angle rests upon a sword and drapes a wreath over the tombstone; on the other side, two emancipated slaves, a young boy and a man, offer a palm branch and point to an eagle. A ship and train are depicted in the background.

Some additional info: The public subscription that had been taken up to create and present this medal to Mary had become known as the "two sous subscription" because all contributions were limited to two sous (=10 centimes) to broaden public participation, and within six month over 40,000 people did. Due to government harassment the medal had to be struck in Geneva, Switzerland.

When French writer and journalist Eugène Pelletan presented the medal to the American Ambassador to France, John Bigelow, in a purple velvet box, he said: "Tell Mrs. Lincoln that in this little box is the heart of France".

Mary Lincoln later presented her medal to the Library of Congress.

Just thought I'd share...(maybe for the next French school project).