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Laurie Verge · 04-26-2013, 08:36 AM

I finally got a chance to go on the link, but I lasted for only about ten minutes. I was so disgusted with Ms. Terborg-Penn that I couldn't take any more. I felt sorry for Mr. Smith at times because he was trying to include her or get support from her. You could see him look over in anticipation of her joining in -- and nothing!

For a First Lady as well-researched and studied as Mary Lincoln, one would think that C-Span would have gone after a recognized expert in the field. Very disappointing...

Gene C · 04-26-2013, 08:58 AM

C'mon Laurie, don't hold back. Tell us what you realy think

DEFoster · 04-26-2013, 01:10 PM

At least I feel better, knowing I wasn't the only one so sadly disappointed. I had such high hopes ...

Gene C · 05-05-2013, 07:51 AM

Just watched the CSpam program on First Ladies - Eliza Johnson. They had two different historians than for the Mary Lincoln program.

According to them, she must have been married to a different Andrew Johnson than the one I've read about here and in some of my other books. He was not an alcoholic or a womanizer, and everyone loved him (in spite of political differences), and attended their parties at the White House. Any one else catch this enlightening program?

LincolnMan · 05-06-2013, 06:32 AM

(04-25-2013 11:59 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:
(04-23-2013 01:47 PM)L Verge Wrote: Richard Norton Smith comes with some high credentials, including curating the new Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum when it first got off the ground. He is also quite good at being interviewed.

I never heard of Ms. Terborg-Penn. What is her specialty? I'm sorry to hear that it wasn't up to par because I have several of my museum guides who have really liked the series so far. It's a shame that the one First Lady that they really need to know about fell short on this segment.

As for the gloves, was it Donna McCreary on this forum or the Mary Lincoln Enigma book that pointed out that people of that day, especially the President who stood in so many receiving lines, soiled or wore out many pairs of gloves in just one night. Mary would not have known about germs, but I bet she was fastidious when it came to things being soiled and shabby.

Yes, Mary did indeed purchase many, many pairs of gloves. While we do not know if she actually purchased the 300 pairs between January to April, 1865 (no bills of sale exist), it would not have been unreasonable. When actress Sarah Bernhardt arrived in New York in 1881 (she was on the Amerique along with Mary Lincoln), the newspapers reported that her trunks contained 350 pairs of white gloves.

Due to the large crowds at White House entertainments, Lincoln used as many as five pairs of gloves during one reception. Mary would not have used as many. If she soiled as many as three pairs per reception, those 300 pairs of gloves would have lasted no longer than seven months.

Laurie is correct - Mary knew nothing about germs. But, I have a feeling she could spot a dirty glove from the other side of the room.

Donna: your explanation for the actual need for glove is very information. It sounds plausible and reasonable to buy them in bulk-since they are soled easily. Also makes another case for Mary having been treated unfairly in history as a reckless spender.

Donna McCreary · 05-06-2013, 04:17 PM

(05-06-2013 06:32 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:
(04-25-2013 11:59 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:
(04-23-2013 01:47 PM)L Verge Wrote: Richard Norton Smith comes with some high credentials, including curating the new Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum when it first got off the ground. He is also quite good at being interviewed.

I never heard of Ms. Terborg-Penn. What is her specialty? I'm sorry to hear that it wasn't up to par because I have several of my museum guides who have really liked the series so far. It's a shame that the one First Lady that they really need to know about fell short on this segment.

As for the gloves, was it Donna McCreary on this forum or the Mary Lincoln Enigma book that pointed out that people of that day, especially the President who stood in so many receiving lines, soiled or wore out many pairs of gloves in just one night. Mary would not have known about germs, but I bet she was fastidious when it came to things being soiled and shabby.

Yes, Mary did indeed purchase many, many pairs of gloves. While we do not know if she actually purchased the 300 pairs between January to April, 1865 (no bills of sale exist), it would not have been unreasonable. When actress Sarah Bernhardt arrived in New York in 1881 (she was on the Amerique along with Mary Lincoln), the newspapers reported that her trunks contained 350 pairs of white gloves.

Due to the large crowds at White House entertainments, Lincoln used as many as five pairs of gloves during one reception. Mary would not have used as many. If she soiled as many as three pairs per reception, those 300 pairs of gloves would have lasted no longer than seven months.

Laurie is correct - Mary knew nothing about germs. But, I have a feeling she could spot a dirty glove from the other side of the room.

Donna: your explanation for the actual need for glove is very information. It sounds plausible and reasonable to buy them in bulk-since they are soled easily. Also makes another case for Mary having been treated unfairly in history as a reckless spender.

When I was writing my chapter for THE MARY LINCOLN ENIGMA, I found an advertisement for packages of fine, leather, white gloves. Each package held one dozen pair of gloves. These gloves were used by ladies at receptions, balls, and other entertainments. They were packaged by the dozen because they were considered a disposable item - wear them until dirty - throw them out.

Most ladies did not need to purchase 25 packages of gloves within a five month period. However, no other lady had to shake as many hands as Mary Lincoln did in 1865. For her, it was not an outlandish purchase.

To the modern reader, the purchases do seem 'reckless.' A modern reader (and most historians) do not realize how dirty people were in the 19th century. They forget how many thousands of people attended each White House reception. And they forget that Mary was the only woman in the country who was in a position to endure shaking so many hands.