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RJNorton · 10-16-2014, 01:23 PM

Laurie, I scanned this photo from p. 98 of Lincoln: An Illustrated Biography by Philip B. Kunhardt, Jr., Philip B. Kunhardt III, and Peter W. Kunhardt. The caption says it was taken after the addition was added in 1856, but no specific date is given. If this photo is as old as I think it is then I think it's unlikely the gutter system was created by the NPS. I think they have tried to copy the original gutter configuration.

L Verge · 10-16-2014, 01:49 PM

Thanks for checking on this because it is so unusual (I think). At Surratt House, there has been an ongoing question as to whether or not there would have been gutters on a middle-class home in the 1850s. For the first few years, we had no gutters. When the kitchen wing was added, we did add gutters to it. The main block of the house has French drainage around the foundation. I certainly have very little experience in gutters (no comment here, please), but this is unusual to say the least.

Gene C · 10-16-2014, 02:10 PM

Several of the homes in New Salem had gutters
https://www.flickr.com/photos/40470653@N04/4123375530/

L Verge · 10-16-2014, 05:02 PM

I think the use of gutters goes back to Roman times, and I was told once that the gargoyles that we associate with cathedrals were originally designed as gutters with the water channeled to them and "spitting" out of their mouths. I remember reading about early buildings having wooden gutters, and cast iron or bronze gutters were popular in the 1800s.

What fascinates me with this set-up is the fact that the downspouts are tied into one drain that evidently runs underground. If there is a basement at the Lincoln home, do you suppose that they had the water draining into an inside cistern instead of the traditional rain barrels at the end of each corner downspout?

Gene C · 10-16-2014, 05:53 PM

There is a basement, but that was not part of the tour

LincolnToddFan · 10-16-2014, 08:53 PM

Gene, your photos have left me simply speechless! I especially love the upstairs bedrooms. The wallpaper is a bit "busy" for my taste but the beds look very cosy indeed. I wonder if those are the authentic bed frames used by the Lincolns?

Here is a question...is the Lincoln home on 8th and Jackson incorporation into a regular neighborhood with regular families surrounding it? The constant parade of tourists must drive them cuckoo if so.

Is the house completely roped off or anything?

Thanks so much to you and Roger for making it possible for us to see these...they are unbelievable!

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 10-17-2014 06:36 AM by Gene C.)

As far as I know, no one lives on the block that the Lincoln Home is located on. The road is closed to street traffic. The buildings are used, mainly for office space for the Parks Dept.

The interior rooms are roped off, although you do have a path to walk through them.
Not sure about the beds.

Eva Elisabeth · (This post was last modified: 10-17-2014 06:56 AM by Eva Elisabeth.)

(10-16-2014 08:53 PM)LincolnToddFan Wrote: Gene, your photos have left me simply speechless! I especially love the upstairs bedrooms. The wallpaper is a bit "busy" for my taste but the beds look very cosy indeed. I wonder if those are the authentic bed frames used by the Lincolns?

Here is a question...is the Lincoln home on 8th and Jackson incorporation into a regular neighborhood with regular families surrounding it? The constant parade of tourists must drive them cuckoo if so.

Is the house completely roped off or anything?

Thanks so much to you and Roger for making it possible for us to see these...they are unbelievable!

I second this! THANK YOU, Gene, for the wonderful photos and the elaborate descriptions!!! The beds look pretty small to me, especially for A. Lincoln...Great you didn't forget the whatnot...

(10-16-2014 05:02 PM)L Verge Wrote: I think the use of gutters goes back to Roman times, and I was told once that the gargoyles that we associate with cathedrals were originally designed as gutters with the water channeled to them and "spitting" out of their mouths. I remember reading about early buildings having wooden gutters, and cast iron or bronze gutters were popular in the 1800s.

This is nice: http://www.gutterhelmet.com/blog/the-his...-timeline/

Joe Di Cola · 10-17-2014, 09:03 AM

Laurie,

There is a well on the Lincoln property and also a cistern that collected the rainwater from the downspouts. I believe the photo of the rear of the Lincoln home was taken around 1865.

Eva,

The bed in Abraham Lincoln's bedroom is well over 6 feet in length. The angle at which any photo of it is taken will cause foreshortening and make it appear smaller.

Joe Di Cola · (This post was last modified: 10-17-2014 10:08 AM by Joe Di Cola.)

Laurie,

I had a few minutes to check on the date of the photo of the rear of Lincoln's house and it is 1860.

There have been questions about the street where Lincoln's home is located. When the NPS took over the site (thank heavens Illinois is not in charge of it!!!!!), any home that was not there when Lincoln lived on the street was removed. Any home that was extensively altered from its 1860 appearance was removed, but a marker put up marking the site if that home was there in 1860. All others still standing are homes that were there when Lincoln left in 1860 and have been restored to their appearance at that time. One exception is a 3/4-scale replica of the Edwards home (how it looked in 1842) which used to contain the replica parlor where the marriage took place. It is now a conference center and can be used for other functions via the NPS. Hope this helps.

P.S.--The original Edwards home, where the Lincoln's were married, was much enlarged over the years. It was subsequently razed and its site is now occupied by the Centennial Building.

L Verge · 10-17-2014, 10:26 AM

Thanks for the extra info, Joe. I still think that's an unusual (and ugly) configuration of pipes!

Feather bedding can also make the beds appear shorter.

Rsmyth · 10-17-2014, 07:49 PM

My wife and I visited Springfield a few years ago and loved it. We stayed downtown and as it was the weekend it was pretty deserted. The Lincoln house is in an area surrounded by other homes for blocks and blocks. It is particularly nice walking through the area at night with the replica gas street lights. We like to walk and did twice to the cemetery to see the Lincoln monument and the graves of others related to Lincoln, his life and burial...and others (I am going by memory without checking my notes but the plumber (Hopkins?) who opened Lincoln's casket at the last viewing, Lindsley (sp) the last survivor to view the remains and past superintendents of the cemetery involved in one or more of the many moves of the caskets. We visited all the local Lincoln sites in town, found some great restaurants and went to the Lincoln Library and Museum where (as I have mentioned before) through the auspices of director James Cornelius, was able to hold the ring JWB gave to Isabel Sumner and the letters to her that she kept and cherished. It is a great place for Lincolnites to spend a long weekend.

Eva Elisabeth · 10-19-2014, 07:33 PM

Thanks, Joe and Laurie, for your comments on the size of the beds. I wonder if the high frame adds to the misleading impression?!

(10-17-2014 10:06 AM)Joe Di Cola Wrote: One exception is a 3/4-scale replica of the Edwards home (how it looked in 1842) which used to contain the replica parlor where the marriage took place. It is now a conference center and can be used for other functions via the NPS.

Joe, please pardon me, what does 3/4 scale mean - 1/4 of the rooms were "skipped", or a 4m wall was shortened to 3m (which would be my actual understanding of "scale")? What about the height of the ceiling in the latter case?

What is now at the original place where the Edwards' home once stood? And what was the fate of the original house?

Anita · 10-19-2014, 09:08 PM

(10-19-2014 07:33 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote: What is now at the original place where the Edwards' home once stood? And what was the fate of the original house?

Hi Eva. This link will answer your questions Re: the home of Elizabeth & Ninian Edwards.

http://sangamoncountyhistory.org/wp/?p=1611

Eva Elisabeth · 10-20-2014, 12:17 AM

Thank you, Anita!