Lincoln embalming

[historybuff22]

Just did another of my 3-times-a-week search of eBay using the term "Lincoln assassination." As you know 98% of the items are books about Lincoln or the assassination. Today's search turned up something different.

I'm not sure if it is a photo on glass or a Magic Lantern slide. It claims to be a photo show Lincoln being embalmed. I don't know of it is authentic or a contrived image - after, there are several photos claiming to show Lincoln in his casket that are fake. The direct URL for this item is:

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEATH-OF-LINCOLN-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-MUSEUM-OF-NATIONAL-HISTORY-NY-NY-GLASS-SLIDE-/261212062086?ssPageName=ADME:BS:US:1123[/url]

What do you think?

Rick Brown
HistoryBuff.com
A Nonprofit Oganization

[RJNorton]

Rick, it looks like this to my aging eyes.

[Laurie Verge]

Isn't this just one of the CW era photos that you see of embalmers advertising their services by showing the process in front of a camera? Here we go again with any man with a beard becoming a photo of Lincoln.

[Jim Garrett]

Well, the picture does show a man with a beard laid out on a board or door being embalmed. Yes Laurie that's about it. Charles Gunther was suppose to have the boards used as the autopsy table, but they have long ago disappeared. Maybe they are with the skin of the serpent from the Garden of Eden, that he also possessed.

Also, I don't think AL was embalmed in front of a tent set up on the White House lawn.

[Jim Page]

(05-07-2013 04:42 PM)Laurie Verge Wrote:  Here we go again with any man with a beard becoming a photo of Lincoln.

Just moments before I was eased out of the Mudd House, I mentioned to Dr. Mudd's grand-daughter, whose name I've forgotten, that the large photo of "Lincoln" in their little museum was a nice photo, but not a photo of Abraham Lincoln.

I've often wondered if the Mudds did that on purpose. I mean, the photo doesn't even look that much like Lincoln!

--Jim

[Houmes]

(05-07-2013 02:08 PM)historybuff22 Wrote:  Just did another of my 3-times-a-week search of eBay using the term "Lincoln assassination." As you know 98% of the items are books about Lincoln or the assassination. Today's search turned up something different.

I'm not sure if it is a photo on glass or a Magic Lantern slide. It claims to be a photo show Lincoln being embalmed. I don't know of it is authentic or a contrived image - after, there are several photos claiming to show Lincoln in his casket that are fake. The direct URL for this item is:

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEATH-OF-LINCOLN-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-MUSEUM-OF-NATIONAL-HISTORY-NY-NY-GLASS-SLIDE-/261212062086?ssPageName=ADME:BS:US:1123[/url]

What do you think?

Rick Brown
HistoryBuff.com
A Nonprofit Oganization

This is a famous Civil War image showing Dr. Richard Burr embalming a Union soldier from the "Army of the James." It was original a stereoview and was printed by Brady. It's usually published with Dr. Burr facing to his left, with other variants showing him turned to his right, or even directly facing the camera. Collectors find it very hard to find in the market.

[LincolnMan]

We have mentioned the many times Lincoln was viewed after death (something like 16?)-and the accounts of the viewings all mention how his face had not changed very much. I don't know any morticians-and I don't mean to be gross-but what would Lincoln's face look like now? It is said that the embalming process turned Lincoln to stone. How long would that last? Perhaps this is a morbid curiosity- please forgive me if the subject is not worthy of consideration.

[RJNorton]

Bill, here are a couple of statements from the people who viewed Lincoln's remains at the 1901 casket opening.

Fleetwood Lindley said, "Yes, his face was chalky white. His clothes were mildewed. And I was allowed to hold one of the leather straps as we lowered the casket for the concrete to be poured. I was not scared at the time but I slept with Lincoln for the next six months."

J.C. Thompson said, "As I came up I saw that top-knot of Mr. Lincoln's - his hair was course and thick, 'like a horse's,' he used to say - and it stood up high in front. When I saw that, I knew that it was Mr. Lincoln. Anyone who had ever seen his pictures would have known it was him. His features had not decayed. He looked just like a statue of himself lying there."

When the casket was opened, a harsh, choking smell arose. 23 people slowly walked forward and peered down. Mr. Lincoln's features were totally recognizable. His face had a melancholy expression, but his black chin whiskers hadn't changed at all. The wart on his cheek and the coarse black hair were obvious characteristics of Mr. Lincoln's. The biggest change was that the eyebrows had vanished. The president was wearing the same suit he wore at his second inauguration, but it was covered with yellow mold. Additionally there were some bits of red fabric (possibly the remnants of an American flag buried with Mr. Lincoln). All 23 people were unanimous in their agreement that the remains were indeed those of Abraham Lincoln.

Dorothy Meserve Kunhardt wrote an article on this topic that was published in the February 15, 1963, edition of Life magazine.

If you are asking what he'd look like now I have no idea; perhaps the two medical doctors on the forum will see this thread and comment.

[LincolnMan]

Roger, it was good to refresh in my mind those accounts of the viewing! Yes, it would be most interesting to hear any input from the doctors on the Forum-or anyone else that wants to weigh in on the subject.

[Gene C]

In 'Giant In the Shadows', Robert Lincoln was not pleased that the casket was opened without his permission and that so many people viewed the President's body

[LincolnMan]

He must have felt it was the ultimate intrusion?

[Houmes]

(05-16-2013 03:59 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Bill, here are a couple of statements from the people who viewed Lincoln's remains at the 1901 casket opening.

Fleetwood Lindley said, "Yes, his face was chalky white. His clothes were mildewed. And I was allowed to hold one of the leather straps as we lowered the casket for the concrete to be poured. I was not scared at the time but I slept with Lincoln for the next six months."

J.C. Thompson said, "As I came up I saw that top-knot of Mr. Lincoln's - his hair was course and thick, 'like a horse's,' he used to say - and it stood up high in front. When I saw that, I knew that it was Mr. Lincoln. Anyone who had ever seen his pictures would have known it was him. His features had not decayed. He looked just like a statue of himself lying there."

When the casket was opened, a harsh, choking smell arose. 23 people slowly walked forward and peered down. Mr. Lincoln's features were totally recognizable. His face had a melancholy expression, but his black chin whiskers hadn't changed at all. The wart on his cheek and the coarse black hair were obvious characteristics of Mr. Lincoln's. The biggest change was that the eyebrows had vanished. The president was wearing the same suit he wore at his second inauguration, but it was covered with yellow mold. Additionally there were some bits of red fabric (possibly the remnants of an American flag buried with Mr. Lincoln). All 23 people were unanimous in their agreement that the remains were indeed those of Abraham Lincoln.

Dorothy Meserve Kunhardt wrote an article on this topic that was published in the February 15, 1963, edition of Life magazine.

If you are asking what he'd look like now I have no idea; perhaps the two medical doctors on the forum will see this thread and comment.

He'd probably look about the same. When Lincoln was embalmed Henry Cattell used a solution of Zince chloride dissolved in hydrochloric acid, which was then pumped into the president's neck and groin arteries. Civil War embalmers also used various mixtures of arsenic, alcohol, mercury, creosote, turpentine, and sulfuric acid. Arsenic would become the chemical most commonly used, in the amounts of 4 ounces to 12 pounds per body. The U.S. essentially banned arsenic use by 1910 because so many morticians were dying from chemical exposure. Mr. Lincoln suffered the same fate as David E. George (the Enid, Oklahoma, "Booth")--the chemical formula was miscalculated and their bodies became mummies, with the skin quite discolored. That's why Lincoln's face was later covered with white chalk, placed there by undertakers to allow mourners some semblance of a viewable body. Embalming fluids preserve bodies by "fixing" the cell proteins, so they can't be a nutrient supply for bacteria. No bacteria, no decomposition. Mummification dries out a body and it can last for centuries (think of Egyptian mummies). Although some decomposition may inevitably occur, there have been amazing stories of preservation in very old remains here in North America. In 1993 the largest cemetery disaster in U.S. history occurred in Missouri at the Hardin County cemetery. Of 1,576 burials, 800 were washed away during flooding of the Missouri river. 645 bodies were recovered (I've seen pictures of coffins floating down river and in ponds), with 120 bodies later identified. I was acquainted with the state medical examiner here in Iowa, and he helped out with examinations and IDs. He noted there were several bodies from the mid 1800s still in remarkably good condition. A little water-logged, but identifiable. He also said the coffins weren't always in good condition, though, and when some were opened snakes slithered out.

[Jim Garrett]

Blaine, thank you for the information. As always, your information is complete and often over the top and colorful. Great to visualize!

[Eva Elisabeth]

Some days ago the Lenin tomb in Moscow was re-opened and Lenin's face shown in the news on many TV stations. Of course he died 59 years later than Lincoln, and I don't know if the same method had been used for his embalming, but Lenin's face, indeed, looked like made of stone or wax, with its colour lighter than the natural complexion. For sure you will find pictures on the internet, and thus you might make up an imagination of what Lincoln's face could look like now.

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Don't mistake this - I do not mean he looks like Lenin!

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Don't mistake this - I do not mean he looks like Lenin!

[LincolnMan]

Wow, what an informative and interesting answer. I'm also assuming that because he is in an air-tight coffin (is that true?)-which is encased in cement that decay would be further delayed?