Mary's Reputation

[Gene C]

I read that last year. Good book
Here are some interesting comments about it by members of the forum

http://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussio...-2079.html

Used copies are very affordable on Amazon

[kerry]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I thought a lot of good points were brought up. One being that first ladies tend to be "headstrong" - reading histories of the first ladies, I was amazed at how strong their personalities were, even ones in more modern eras. Very few of the presidents wanted a perfect trophy wife or a silent partner - they tend to marry tough, capable women. Which, given the difficulties of political life, makes perfect sense, but I don't think it's acknowledged enough that men who become good leaders generally like a wife who asserts herself. Some of them seem to have been quite delighted with their "difficult" women - McKinley and Truman come to mind.

I'm working on a book that involves using newspaper sites to read every single article referencing Mary Lincoln during the war and its aftermath, and it's definitely interesting to see her reputation develop. Most of the corruption stuff was widely reported at the time, but Lincoln had it quietly dealt with or ignored it. He clearly knew a good deal of what was going on since it was everywhere. He kept his mouth shut (the smart thing to do). It's too bad he didn't live to speak a bit more about his experience as President for many reasons - perhaps he may have said some nice things about Mary that would have helped her image a bit. And of course he'd have had many more interesting things to say.

[Susan Higginbotham]

(10-26-2017 09:06 PM)kerry Wrote:  Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I thought a lot of good points were brought up. One being that first ladies tend to be "headstrong" - reading histories of the first ladies, I was amazed at how strong their personalities were, even ones in more modern eras. Very few of the presidents wanted a perfect trophy wife or a silent partner - they tend to marry tough, capable women. Which, given the difficulties of political life, makes perfect sense, but I don't think it's acknowledged enough that men who become good leaders generally like a wife who asserts herself. Some of them seem to have been quite delighted with their "difficult" women - McKinley and Truman come to mind.

I'm working on a book that involves using newspaper sites to read every single article referencing Mary Lincoln during the war and its aftermath, and it's definitely interesting to see her reputation develop. Most of the corruption stuff was widely reported at the time, but Lincoln had it quietly dealt with or ignored it. He clearly knew a good deal of what was going on since it was everywhere. He kept his mouth shut (the smart thing to do). It's too bad he didn't live to speak a bit more about his experience as President for many reasons - perhaps he may have said some nice things about Mary that would have helped her image a bit. And of course he'd have had many more interesting things to say.

That should make for a fascinating book.

[kerry]

I hope it will - having trouble narrowing the focus into a good story. I have to come up with a thesis or two to tie it together.

[Gene C]

Mary certainly got her share of bad press.
I'm currently reading The Madness of Mary Lincoln by Jason Emerson. Several quotes in the book from the newspapers of her time about her, most of them unfavorable.

Good luck with your project.
I'd be especially interested in the good things the press might have said about her, considering all the negative press she seemed to get. Also would be interesting if you include what the foreign press might have had to say.

[kerry]

Thanks - I'll look for a few of the positive things and try to post them. I include what is available of the English-speaking press, though I'm not sure I'm aware of all the places to look. So I have stuff from England, Canada and Australia. There were definitely things in French and German papers that I can't translate well, but not many.

[kerry]

Another thing I've been wondering about is how Lincoln's cabinet acted toward Mary after his death, and how it affected her reputation. I think staying quiet as they did was probably the best bet, but it would have been interesting had any of them stuck up for her. In the Old Clothes Scandal, when Weed came out with his denunciation, which relied heavily on Seward's experiences, I wonder what Seward thought. Whether he approved it or just let it happen. She had gone after Seward in her letter so maybe he gave the okay. One of the only comments by a cabinet member was an interview I found with Usher (Secretary of the Interior), and his main comment was that Lincoln treated her as if she was under his protection. Sumner, Trumbull and Cameron at least made a comment to the effect that she was his companion, so for his sake, be nice. I know Seward and Stanton had their own issues at that point, but I wonder what they were thinking.

[Steve]

I'm reposting this article from an Assassination thread, so forum members who have an interest in Mary Todd Lincoln but don't have as much interest in the particulars of the assassination won't miss it. It's a letter by Mary reprinted in a Scottish newspaper where she complains about the racist/discriminatory treatment of the families of fallen colored Union soldiers and sailors:


Source: The Caledonian Mercury (Edinburgh, Scotland), page 3 of the 01 Sept. 1866 edition.

[L Verge]

(07-20-2018 02:56 PM)Steve Wrote:  I'm reposting this article from an Assassination thread, so forum members who have an interest in Mary Todd Lincoln but don't have as much interest in the particulars of the assassination won't miss it. It's a letter by Mary reprinted in a Scottish newspaper where she complains about the racist/discriminatory treatment of the families of fallen colored Union soldiers and sailors:


Source: The Caledonian Mercury (Edinburgh, Scotland), page 3 of the 01 Sept. 1866 edition.

Hope I'm not the one who posted this on the Assassination thread because it doesn't pertain to that. However, I have often talked about this because I am a supporter of Mary Lincoln.

---

(07-20-2018 02:56 PM)Steve Wrote:  I'm reposting this article from an Assassination thread, so forum members who have an interest in Mary Todd Lincoln but don't have as much interest in the particulars of the assassination won't miss it. It's a letter by Mary reprinted in a Scottish newspaper where she complains about the racist/discriminatory treatment of the families of fallen colored Union soldiers and sailors:


Source: The Caledonian Mercury (Edinburgh, Scotland), page 3 of the 01 Sept. 1866 edition.

Hope I'm not the one who posted this on the Assassination thread because it doesn't pertain to that. However, I have often talked about this because I am a supporter of Mary Lincoln. And, just as an aside, she would not have used the term "racist." The first known use of the word in print form occurred in the 1920s, if I remember my research correctly.

[Steve]

(07-20-2018 03:09 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Hope I'm not the one who posted this on the Assassination thread because it doesn't pertain to that. However, I have often talked about this because I am a supporter of Mary Lincoln.

No, it's my fault. It was in a bunch of articles regarding Alexander Williamson, the tutor of Tad and Willie Lincoln. I can't initially post images of large newspaper article or photos myself to a thread, so I forward them to Roger to post to a forum thread and I forgot to specify to him that I wanted this one posted to a Mary-related thread instead of an Assassination thread.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Thanks for sharing!
Steve - you can post any photos as attachments when you downsize them to 0,7 MB. Most look still the same then (to my unprofessional eyes at least).

[kerry]

That letter was published in the American papers in June 1867. She had initially requested he not publish it, but apparently changed her mind, or it got out. I didn't realize he sent it to the Scottish papers - cool find!

She wrote Williamson on August 19th, 1866, that he should “write me, whether you showed to Wade . . . the letter — I wrote you relative to the distribution — of fair gifts . . . Do not fail to tell me — if you did so — I have some curiosity, on the subject & will explain to you, some other time . . .” I have no idea what she was referring to.

Where did you access the Scottish papers?

Williamson gave several interesting interviews, but somehow I never questioned his story of being present at the assassination. Now that it's called my attention, it does seem suspicious. But he later helped an artist reconstruct the scene and he sounded credible. Accounts of that time do have an unfortunate habit of failing to note the existence of people of lower social status, as Williamson would have been perceived by those present. Several accounts mentioned a crying "servant," and I was never sure who that was. He didn't say his son was with Tad, but that he was at the theater. I guess it was probably made up - that disappoints me. I enjoy Williamson's accounts, and now I'm not sure if I can trust them.

[Steve]

(07-20-2018 06:14 PM)kerry Wrote:  That letter was published in the American papers in June 1867. She had initially requested he not publish it, but apparently changed her mind, or it got out. I didn't realize he sent it to the Scottish papers - cool find!

She wrote Williamson on August 19th, 1866, that he should “write me, whether you showed to Wade . . . the letter — I wrote you relative to the distribution — of fair gifts . . . Do not fail to tell me — if you did so — I have some curiosity, on the subject & will explain to you, some other time . . .” I have no idea what she was referring to.

Where did you access the Scottish papers?

Williamson gave several interesting interviews, but somehow I never questioned his story of being present at the assassination. Now that it's called my attention, it does seem suspicious. But he later helped an artist reconstruct the scene and he sounded credible. Accounts of that time do have an unfortunate habit of failing to note the existence of people of lower social status, as Williamson would have been perceived by those present. Several accounts mentioned a crying "servant," and I was never sure who that was. He didn't say his son was with Tad, but that he was at the theater. I guess it was probably made up - that disappoints me. I enjoy Williamson's accounts, and now I'm not sure if I can trust them.

I found it by accident on newspapers.com; I was doing a keyword search - looking for newspaper accounts by Williamson or his son, William B. Williamson who was at Ford's Theatre of the assassination night. I couldn't find any firsthand accounts of William (only his father's accounts) but this newspaper account of the letter from Scotland just popped up in the search, I wasn't expecting it!

[kerry]

(07-20-2018 06:59 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(07-20-2018 06:14 PM)kerry Wrote:  That letter was published in the American papers in June 1867. She had initially requested he not publish it, but apparently changed her mind, or it got out. I didn't realize he sent it to the Scottish papers - cool find!

She wrote Williamson on August 19th, 1866, that he should “write me, whether you showed to Wade . . . the letter — I wrote you relative to the distribution — of fair gifts . . . Do not fail to tell me — if you did so — I have some curiosity, on the subject & will explain to you, some other time . . .” I have no idea what she was referring to.

Where did you access the Scottish papers?

Williamson gave several interesting interviews, but somehow I never questioned his story of being present at the assassination. Now that it's called my attention, it does seem suspicious. But he later helped an artist reconstruct the scene and he sounded credible. Accounts of that time do have an unfortunate habit of failing to note the existence of people of lower social status, as Williamson would have been perceived by those present. Several accounts mentioned a crying "servant," and I was never sure who that was. He didn't say his son was with Tad, but that he was at the theater. I guess it was probably made up - that disappoints me. I enjoy Williamson's accounts, and now I'm not sure if I can trust them.

I found it by accident on newspapers.com; I was doing a keyword search - looking for newspaper accounts by Williamson or his son, William B. Williamson who was at Ford's Theatre of the assassination night. I couldn't find any firsthand accounts of William (only his father's accounts) but this newspaper account of the letter from Scotland just popped up in the search, I wasn't expecting it!

Interesting - I'd searched for him before and never caught that, but I just found it. Newspapers.com is awesome. I've found so much interesting stuff. But, unless I'm missing something, there is no proximity search. You can't say the words have to be within a certain distance from each other. So it is very inexact. But its interface is so user friendly and fast. Fulton Postcards has a ton of awesome stuff and is run by one guy who uploaded the Brooklyn Daily Eagle in no time, while the NYPL is still trying to finish it at the cost of millions of dollars. But its user friendliness is virtually nonexistent. Genealogy bank is best for proximity search.

[RJNorton]

(07-21-2018 12:53 AM)kerry Wrote:  Williamson gave several interesting interviews, but somehow I never questioned his story of being present at the assassination. Now that it's called my attention, it does seem suspicious. But he later helped an artist reconstruct the scene and he sounded credible. Accounts of that time do have an unfortunate habit of failing to note the existence of people of lower social status, as Williamson would have been perceived by those present. Several accounts mentioned a crying "servant," and I was never sure who that was. He didn't say his son was with Tad, but that he was at the theater. I guess it was probably made up - that disappoints me. I enjoy Williamson's accounts, and now I'm not sure if I can trust them

Kerry, I based what I said on that fact that he is not mentioned as being at the Petersen House in W. Emerson Reck's book or in Kathy Canavan's book. Plus he is not included in Alonzo Chappel's "rubber room" depiction of 47 people at the deathbed. I think Chappel included everyone known to have come to the Petersen House that night. Of course many of them were not actually in Willie Clark's room when Lincoln died. I tend to think Williamson was not present at the deathbed, but I could be wrong.