Mary's Reputation

[RJNorton]

Here are more pages regarding the photo:

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2004669812/

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resource.../64_06.htm

http://thecivilwarparlor.tumblr.com/post...l-four-men

[RJNorton]

Thank you to Donna for sending this link.

[LincolnMan]

Do we know if there were snippets of Mary's hair taken after her death like what was done with Mr. Lincoln? It seems doing so was a tradition of that era.

[Donna McCreary]

(06-12-2013 08:16 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Do we know if there were snippets of Mary's hair taken after her death like what was done with Mr. Lincoln? It seems doing so was a tradition of that era.

Yes, there was. I actually own some of it. And yes, I have all of the proper documentation.

[David Lockmiller]

(07-15-2012 01:22 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Hi Laurie. Personally I think this is true, at least in in part. Certainly Mary did some things totally separate from Herndon that caused her to have a "reputation." Her negative comments about Mrs. Ord and Mrs. Grant, for example, had nothing to do with Herndon.

Regarding Herndon there is the following explanation which I believe the experts have different "takes" on. For what it's worth, here goes:

In 1837, when they were both very young, they were at a party and Herndon asked Mary to dance. After the dance, Herndon observed that Mary had seemed to glide through the waltz with the ease of a serpent. Mary was furious and responded that she didn't like being compared to a serpent, even if Herndon was just kidding her. She walked away and left him on the dance floor. From then on they never got along, and this cold relationship continued for the rest of their lives. Herndon was opposed to Lincoln marrying into the wealth and aristocracy of Springfield, and he was not invited to the wedding in 1842. Additionally, Herndon felt Mary's temper and personality made for a poor wife and a lousy home life for his law partner.

And, of course, this negative opinion (some writers have even used the word "hatred") of Mary was apparent in his later writings and lectures.

Roger wrote: " Certainly Mary did some things totally separate from Herndon that caused her to have a "reputation." Her negative comments about Mrs. Ord and Mrs. Grant, for example, had nothing to do with Herndon.

Professor Michael Burlingame wrote of incidents occurring on March 26, 1865 (less than a month before Lincoln's assassination) involving Mrs. Grant, Mrs. Griffin, and Mrs. Ord in his book, "Abraham Lincoln: A Life" Vol. II, pages 781 -782. The principal witness for the narration was General Grant's aide, Major Adam Badeau.

After lunch aboard Porter's flagship, the Malvern, Lincoln proceeded to Aiken's Landing, where Ord's officers were waiting to escort the presidential party to the review. Lincoln rode with Grant and Ord, while the First Lady and Julia Grant, along Grant's aide Adam Badeau, followed in an ambulance. The president cheerfully laughed and chatted with the generals. When they arrived at Ord's campsite, Lincoln was dismayed to learn that the troops had been awaiting their arrival for hours and had missed lunch. He therefore urged that the review begin without further delay while the women caught up.

Meantime, Major Badeau tried to make polite conversation with the First Lady and Mrs. Grant. He predicted that a battle would soon take place, for Grant had ordered to the rear the wives of officers in the Army of the Potomac. Mrs. Charles Griffin, who had received special permission from the president, was an exception. This news rasped Mary Lincoln. "What do you mean by that, sir?" she asked indignantly. "Do you mean to say that she saw the President alone? Do you know that I never allow the President to see any woman alone?" Julia Grant tried to rescue poor Badeau, who balked when Mary Lincoln instructed him to order the vehicle to halt so that she could leave it. The First Lady then took matters into her own hands by seizing the driver, but Mrs. Grant persuaded her to remain inside until they had reached the reviewing ground. There General Meade, unaware of the delicacy of the situation, replaced Badeau as the ladies' escort. When they returned to the carriage, the First Lady glared at Badeau and remarked, "General Meade is a gentleman, sir. He says it was not the President who gave Mrs. Griffin the permit, but the Secretary of War."

Later that day a more embarrassing scene occurred when the same party visited the command of General Ord's Army of the James. His beautiful, vivacious wife, like Mrs. Griffin, had been allowed to remain at the front. On a highly spirited horse she rode alongside the president while Mary Lincoln's carriage was making its way to the site. According to Badeau, as "soon as Mrs. Lincoln discovered this her rage was beyond all bounds. "What does the woman mean,' she exclaimed, 'by riding by the side of the President? and ahead of me? Does she suppose that he wants her by the side of him?' She was in a frenzy of excitement, and language and action both became more extravagant every moment."

Mary Lincoln grew angrier still when Julia Grant once again attempted to calm her down. Haughtily, the First Lady asked: "I suppose you think you'll get to the White House yourself, don't you?" Mrs. Grant explained that she was quite content with her current situation, provoking a sharp retort: "Oh! you had better take it if you can get it. 'Tis very nice."

At this awkward moment an officer approached and innocently remarked: "The President's horse is very gallant, Mrs. Lincoln; he insists on riding by the side of Mrs. Ord." "What do you mean by that, sir?" she asked heatedly. The astounded officer slunk away.

When the carriage finally reached Ord's headquarters, that general's wife rode up. As Badeau remembered it, Mary Lincoln "positively insulted her, called her vile names in the presence of a crowd of officers, and asked what she meant by following up the President. The poor woman burst into tears and inquired what she had done, but Mrs. Lincoln refused to be appeased, and stormed till she was tired. Mrs. Grant still tried to stand by her friend, and everybody was shocked and horrified."

At dinner that evening, the First Lady vehemently condemned General Ord and urged her husband to remove him, for in her opinion he was unfit for his command. . . . Badeau reported that Mary Lincoln over the next few days "repeatedly attacked her husband in the presence of officers because of Mrs. Griffin and Mrs. Ord."

The spectacle dismayed Badeau, who later wrote:

"I never suffered greater humiliation and pain . . . than when I saw the Head of State, the man who carried all the cares of the nation at such a crisis -- subjected to this inexpressible public mortification." Lincoln "bore it as Christ might have done; with an expression of pain and sadness that cut one to the heart, but with supreme calmness and dignity." With "old-time plainness" he called his wife "mother." He also "pleaded with eyes and tones, and endeavored to explain or palliate the offenses of others, till she turned on him like a tigress; and then he walked away, hiding that noble, ugly face that we might not catch the full expression of its misery."

[Eva Elisabeth]

David, wasn't the incident you mentioned the true reason for which Julia Grant canceled the invitation to Ford's Theater on April 14?

[LincolnMan]

(06-12-2013 11:07 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:16 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Do we know if there were snippets of Mary's hair taken after her death like what was done with Mr. Lincoln? It seems doing so was a tradition of that era.

Yes, there was. I actually own some of it. And yes, I have all of the proper documentation.

Donna: I figured there was. I'm pleased but not surprised that you own some of Mary's hair. Does it require any special treatment or packaging to preserve it?

[Laurie Verge]

Eva,

Mrs. Grant's dislike of the First Lady was certainly one reason for her husband declining the invitation to Ford's, but the couple were also anxious to see their children in New Jersey.

[Donna McCreary]

(06-13-2013 07:23 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 11:07 PM)Donna McCreary Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:16 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Do we know if there were snippets of Mary's hair taken after her death like what was done with Mr. Lincoln? It seems doing so was a tradition of that era.

Yes, there was. I actually own some of it. And yes, I have all of the proper documentation.

Donna: I figured there was. I'm pleased but not surprised that you own some of Mary's hair. Does it require any special treatment or packaging to preserve it?

The person who owned it prior to me (the founder of the Association of Lincoln Presenters) placed it in a late 19th century locket. It is not made of any type of precious metal. I suppose it could be said it is a piece of 19th century costume jewelry. I have it in a fireproof safe. I've never thought about any special care other than keeping it away from air and dust. Perhaps I should investigate that a little more.

[LincolnMan]

Yes, I just wonder if there is some additional preservation step needed.

[Gene C]

I saw some kind of hair product on TV

http://www.asseenontv.com/gray-away/deta...-foot-care

[RJNorton]

If I order in the next 5 minutes do I get two cans for the price of one?

[Gene C]

Certainly, but we can't tell you this on TV, the two cans for the price of one are about half the size of our standard can (plus separate shipping and handling)

[LincolnMan]

Roger and Gene: you two brought to mind the Bassamatic-remember that?

[Gene C]

could this be what you are referring to?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/19046