Mary's Reputation

[LincolnMan]

Ah, let me see-it's the one where she is seated and has the white flowers in her bonnet.

[Donna McCreary]

(06-02-2013 10:14 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Ah, let me see-it's the one where she is seated and has the white flowers in her bonnet.

While I can not get 'in Mary's head' and know exactly why she had this photo taken, there are many reasons why she should have had one taken. First, let's remember that we do not know for certain Mary is wearing mourning - but there are clues in this dress that she was. In 1862 - 1863, day dresses became plainer in style. One fashion magazine stated that “The morning dress is more than ever simple and in the street a lady ought to appear, as it were,
incognito."
Mary's dress follows this style. She appears not as a First Lady, but as an everyday woman.
Following the fashionable style for '62-'63, it is probable that Mary is wearing mourning and her dress is black. The veil on the bonnet was worn to keep the dust out of her face. Other clues are the white spray of flowers - indicate mourning for a child. Her bonnet ribbons are trimmed in white; the collar is white; the undersleeves are white, all soften the mourning and can be indicators of mourning a child.

Another fashionable style during these years was to have large, Greek key designs, or other large trims at the bottom of the skirt. Mary's skirt is plain - again indicating mourning.

So why a photo? Perhaps this was her way of letting the public know that she was beginning to receive guests again. Entertainments would return to the White House, and the social calendar would resume.

You will also find this photo on card stock dated 1865, 1866, and perhaps even later. This is because the photographer owned the negative and reprinted them whenever his supply ran out. CDV's were collected in the same manner that baseball cards are collected now.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Sorry, please, what are CDVs?

[RJNorton]

Good morning, Eva. Please go here.

[Gene C]

Wow Donna, you took something I thought would be boring, and made it interesting.

[LincolnMan]

Great response to my inquiry! Thank you.

[RJNorton]

Donna, I have a copy of Lloyd Ostendorf's The Photographs of Mary Todd Lincoln. Do you know if there have been any "new discoveries" since that was published?

[Donna McCreary]

(06-03-2013 01:21 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Donna, I have a copy of Lloyd Ostendorf's The Photographs of Mary Todd Lincoln. Do you know if there have been any "new discoveries" since that was published?

No new photographs - just changes in several dates. Plus, many historians are now saying that is not really Mary in the photo with the Native Americans.

[RJNorton]

Very interesting, Donna. Here's the photo referred to. Lloyd Ostendorf identifies Mary as standing in the back row far right. (He also identifies John Nicolay standing in the center behind the ladies.) I'll leave it to folks with younger eyes than me to decide if it's Mary.

[J. Beckert]

What's the date of the photo, Roger? I think, to my eyes anyway, that could be a thinner Mary than we're used to seeing. Definitely Nicolay and maybe Ninian Edwards, second from the left?

[RJNorton]

Joe, Lloyd Ostendorf has an 1862 date for that photo, and it bears the Mathew Brady imprint from 1862. He says it was taken in the White House conservatory and was once the property of Nicolay. There is no mention of Ninian Edwards.

[L Verge]

When did the Indian chieftains visit D.C. and Lincoln?

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Here's a link to the Indians' visit to the White House on March 27, 1863 - not 1862:

http://abrahamlincolnandthecivilwar.word...t-lincoln/

According to this it was taken in the White House Conservatory and was done in groups. Notice the reference to B.B. French looking over Kate Chase's shoulder. If there was more than one group, my bet is that Mrs. Lincoln would not have been in the same photo with Kate!

Anybody see Kate in this photo?

[Gene C]

(06-03-2013 05:56 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Anybody see Kate in this photo?

Tad gave her a quick shove into the shrubbery just as they took the picture
(That's why they all have a straight face, they're trying not to laugh. And that's the real rason Mary dotted on the little fellow)
Isn't that him in the middle behind the indians?

[Donna McCreary]

This is one of the photos which now is given a different date from that assigned by Ostendorf. There is no way to dispute the date of the Natiive American chiefs visit.
I do not think that Ninian Edwards was in Washington in 1863 - but I am not sure.

If the photo is indeed Mary, the bonnet strings are the same (or very similar) to the bonnet strings she wore in the CDV Bill mentioned. This is another reason to date the photo of her seated as late 1862 or early 1863. Mary was coming out of her one year mourning period for Willie.

[LincolnMan]

It doesn't look like Mary to me. What do you all think?