Killing Lincoln - Nat Geo (Reactions)

[John E.]

(02-18-2013 08:18 AM)BettyO Wrote:  One minor nitpick - is that in the wonderful scene with Gardner, he asks "Mr. Powell" to sit down. I didn't catch that on the "big screen!" At this venture, Powell was unknown and going by the alias of "Paine" - it wasn't until the middle of the trial that they even knew his real name was Powell..

You caught that too, huh ? Yeah, I was admittedly disappointed that the Gardner scene aboard the Saugus was only feet away from the pier when it was really anchored 100 yards away in the stream. Does it take away from the scene or change it in away? No. Just a minor detail that a select few people would even notice.

With CGI, it would have been easy enough to accomplish but it may not have been in the budget.

My other differences with the movie were in regards to the attack on Seward and Booth's death.

Erik, any comments on that? If you want to take this conversation offline, I would be happy to do so. You did a great job and one in which you should be very proud. However, I know you are perfectionist and may sincerely want to know what you may have missed on the test.

Pointing out misses that can't be changed may be like complaining that someone's wedding could have been better had the DJ played more 80's songs or that the Filet Mignon would have been better served with a different wine. I don't want to be that person so if thats your perception, I won't go there.

[Gene C]

Erik, Haven't seen the movie yet, as I don't get that channel on my cable. Most of the comments I have read are very favorable, and I look foreword to watching the movie. So I just want to say congratualtions on a succesful undertaking of a very difficult subject, with a limited time and dollar budget. This forum can be a tought crowd at times, so take the comments with a grain of salt. None of us will ever fully know the challenges you faced with this production. From the previews and info on the web site, you and your team have done an outstanding job of which you can all be very proud.

[Loomings]

Okay gang. First and foremost, thank you, for your kindness and thoughtful appraisals.

It means the world to me. I care more about your opinions than anyone else's.

But, c'mon! This is the Roger Norton forum! Let's have at it!

I would love to sift through the nits and picks. I would ask only that y'all refrain from commenting on what's NOT covered in the 90 minutes of screen time. There will be an international broadcast version that is 6 minutes longer and includes Booth playing Pescara, Booth at McHenry House, and a bit more with Asia. I believe that will be on the DVD along with other bonus features and perhaps a commentary by yours truly.

BUT, feature-length is all the time we had. We shot this in 15 days. I WISH that it was 4 hours and a mini-series. There is so much more story to tell.

But I'd love to go mano a mano, take my licks and maybe get a coupla shots in myself!

[John E.]

When I think about Jesse's performance, three of my favorite scenes were:

1. Lighting his cigar from the torchlight.
2. Giving the "Yeah I said it, what of it?" look to the black man standing in front of the Executive Mansion.
3. Booth's death throes on the porch. Good stuff.

Johnson playing the part of Booth "over-the-top" was his interpretation and I think it was accurate and effective for the most part. I would have liked to see him come off as more obsessed and sinister in some scenes. Booth's friends and even some of the conspirators noticed a marked change in his behavior toward the end. Less smiling, less happy and more depressed and angry with the losses of the Confederacy. --> That is my personal vision of Booth and I'm no actor. I don't think you can assign wrong or right to Jesse's performance. You can tell he embraced the role and went for it. -- He didn't go through the motions and that was apparent. He believed in what he was doing and that's half the battle.

[L Verge]

I am so happy that the vast majority of the critiques here are positive ones. At this particular moment, I cannot imagine that any other film company in the near future will undertake anything that could surpass this production. In the past, only one comes close, and that was a pure documentary done by Greystone Productions (again, I can't remember the name, but it was about 1990).

As for some of the other comments: I, too, would have liked a little more on Mary Surratt; but I understand that the whole focus was on the assassination and the escape -- and despite what Bill Richter tries to ram down my throat, I do not believe that Booth's escape included a stop at the boardinghouse! (Fear not, Bill and I are good friends - at least we were until I just typed that...)

As for Jesse's portrayal of Booth, again I would cite the few days and hours that are portrayed. By the time that Richmond falls and Lee surrenders, Booth had to be becoming fanatical in his hatred for what his country was becoming. The celebrations in Washington, the Confederates being shuffled through town, and Lincoln's speech on April 11 must have been driving him crazy - and that's how Jesse portrayed him.

Someone else mentioned Booth's leg being tended to on Mudd's settee. I believe I'm correct that Mudd actually tended to the leg upstairs, hence the boot being retrieved later from under the bed. For anyone who has seen the settee, it would appear a very uncomfortable place to have a broken leg set and splinted.

One of the most effective pieces of the film for me was the meshing of Booth's advances on Lincoln with Powell's advances on Seward. I loved the way one scene with one assassin melted into a similar scene with the other assassin.

Two nit-picks - yes, I do it too - The scene of Booth being shot just didn't work for me. First, you were led to believe that he was shot in the heart, and then he falls backwards.

I have always thought that Booth fell forwards. My other complaint would go unnoticed to everyone except old-timers in Southern Maryland. I did find it interesting that Oswell Swann was allowed to have a part in this and a speaking part even. It was nice to realize that he had to have some discourse with the fugitives as he led them over miles of dark roads to Cox's house. So what bugged me? Mr. Swann's skin color!

I appreciated that a lesson was given on what a Wesort is because it is a definite part of Southern Maryland life. Wesorts are tri-racial people tracing their roots first to colonial Virginia and Maryland. The settlers at Jamestown did not have women join them until 1619. During those years, many of the men took Indian women as their common-law wives. Some were shunned and moved elsewhere, while others migrated with their women to more fertile lands. About six of the men ended up in Maryland.

When Father Andrew White came to Maryland with the first Calvert settlers in 1632, he found these couples "living in sin" and forced them to marry within the Catholic Church. Because they were of mixed race, however, their offspring married within the circle of half-whites and half-Indians. Understanding what it was like to be social castoffs, they also harbored escaping slaves, and soon the clan became tri-racial.

Because of the intermarriage, however, they also became some rare examples of genetic inbreeding. To return to my original complaint, Oswell Swann was much too dark to accurately portray a Wesort. I have lived and worked with Wesorts my entire life (they were also known as Wedems when I was young). I had a cousin who worked with Public Health back in the 1950s when the government actually did an extensive study of the group in relation to genetic factors. Wesorts are often whiter than white folk, or they have cafe au lait coloring. I taught students who had the hair of the Negroid race, the coloring of Native Americans, with freckles and blue eyes. Because of the genetics, many also had few, if any, teeth and other unusual characteristics. Many have been excellent students and have gone on to high positions. One is currently a representative for our county in state government, and one is the education coordinator at Surratt House - and is a whiz at programming.

One last thing on Wesorts - I don't believe they were "given" that name in society until the early-1900s. And that's your Southern Maryland history lesson for the day. North Carolinians might associate them with the Melungeons (if I spelled that correctly).

[DanielC]

With a 15 day shoot.. excellent job, Congratualtions! There were several scenes I found very powerful. Booth entering the box, and subsequent escape (on horseback). Powell's attack, (the brutality of it) and many more!!! I have one question, and this is for you (Loomings)and/or the group as well. As I honestly do not know. In Manhunt after Booth is shot it has him falling to his knees and Baker rushing in catching him before he hit the ground. (which would be a little more of a dramatic scene for TV or movie). American Brutus has him falling face down (a little less glorious ending) and last night had him flopping on his back. I would welcome folks opinion on this.
Thanks!

Laurie, I was posting my thread while you were as well!!! Great minds think alike!

[Loomings]

Thank you, Laurie, for sorting out the Mudd/upstairs bed issue.

As for Booth's being shot, all of the dialogue is according to Conger, Baker and Doherty (independent testimonies) - including the last line: Make quick work of it, Captain! Shoot me through the heart!

Art Loux and I really pored through the various testimonies and it seems conclusive that Booth, suddenly paralyzed by the ball, fell backwards. It was a conscious and informed choice -- and one backed up by a neurosurgeon with whom I consulted.

As for Mr. Swann...we have James O. Hall via Art Loux to thank for the Wesort of it all! And here's the thing: We auditioned literally dozens of actors and only Jaiden Kaine could pull off Oswell's tricky dialogue. The funny thing is that he is of Cuban, Irish and Antiguan ancestry! I loved his performance, but agree that his complexion might have been inaccurate...

[L Verge]

Erik - I know that Booth said to shoot him through the heart, but in the quick action of the film, it appears that he really was shot through the heart. It isn't until a short time later that the dialogue clears up the spinal hit. Thanks for the info on the falling backwards. I certainly trust you and Art and a neurosurgeon. I don't think I have ever told anyone in which direction he fell. I have always just said that he "crumpled" to the floor of the barn. BTW: Did you really burn that barn with all that good tobacco still hanging in it???

One last thing, IMdb has yet to post my review. How long does it take to get their seal of approval? I did notice that the two that have been posted were very positive - and I didn't recognize either of the people's names who posted. That's a good sign that there are other appreciative people out there.

[Loomings]

Strange about IMDb. Should be right away! Try reposting?

[LincolnMan]

It was outstanding. Considering the exposure for those largely unfamiliar with the account-and most people aren't. I think we all can recommend it without reservation. I too was concerned that if the show closely followed the book-there would be "problems." But, the fears were not realized. My wife sat and watched it with me. She said: "wow!" She might be considered "John Q. Public" in that regard-impressed.

Question: didn't Seward have the brace on his head during the stabbing? I don't think he was shown with that, was he?

[jonathan]

(02-18-2013 12:02 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Someone else mentioned Booth's leg being tended to on Mudd's settee. I believe I'm correct that Mudd actually tended to the leg upstairs, hence the boot being retrieved later from under the bed. For anyone who has seen the settee, it would appear a very uncomfortable place to have a broken leg set and splinted.

Yeah, that was me. I wasn't really sure about it and almost looked it up. I'm glad they got it right and I got it wrong. One other question I did have though, and again I'm not sure, was when they were in the tobacco barn and Booth is shown writing in his diary. Did he actually write in the diary while he was in the barn?

[Loomings]

The "brace" as depicted in The Conspirator was put on AFTER the attack - and as a direct result. As depicted, Seward had a wire mesh jaw support at the time of the attack. All of this thanks to Dr. Blaine Houmes exhaustive research and help!

As per the diary, Booth wrote some of his final entry during the day at the Garrett farm. It will never be known if his final entry was written in the barn or not, but it does synch up nicely with Herold's testimony regarding their conversation in the barn. AND he wrote, "TONIGHT I try to escape these
bloodhounds once more." So I believe that it's likely. And, I believe that Mr. Loux concurs.

[jonathan]

(02-18-2013 01:02 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  It was outstanding. Considering the exposure for those largely unfamiliar with the account-and most people aren't. I think we all can recommend it without reservation.

I think this is possibly the most important thing about all of this. It provides a historically accurate launching pad for those who know little or nothing about the assassination. And let's face it, a tv show or movie is naturally going to be more likely to draw people in than a book, no matter how well written. All of us here know that there is soooo much to learn for those inclined, and hopefully this movie will bring in a bunch of them. The makers of this movie did a wonderful thing, if for no other reason than this.

[L Verge]

Well said, Jonathan. At Surratt House, we have certainly reaped the benefits of the crowd-pleasing book, Manhunt, and also The Conspirator movie. I hope to see the same rewards from this.

BTW: Someone asked why Bill O'Reilly was even mentioned in the credits. National Geographic is owned by Fox News which "owns" Bill O'Reilly. If his book convinced the holders of the purse strings to finance Erik and crew, that's fine with me.

[LincolnMan]

Actually his name was somewhere in the rolling of the end credits- I specifically took note of it when I saw it.