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J. Beckert · 07-10-2012, 05:27 PM

http://www.suntimes.com/photos/galleries...colns.html

L Verge · 07-10-2012, 06:19 PM

Great story - and it makes me happy to know that even big-wig museums hit stumbling blocks in proving exact provenance.

I also teared up a little when I read the sentence regarding the Scottish judicial system using "guilty," "not guilty," and "not proven." On one of my first encounters with James O. Hall in 1976, I asked him whether or not he thought Mary Surratt was guilty or not guilty. He replied that he had Scottish blood and believed her guilt was "not proven."

Craig Hipkins · 07-10-2012, 07:31 PM

That is an interesting piece. It would make more sense that the hat was given to Waller in Illinois rather than Washington. It is known that during the debates with Douglas that Lincoln wore a stovepipe hat, while Douglas wore a hat with a white brim. Although one must ask the question "why would you give someone your hat?"

Craig

Rsmyth · 07-11-2012, 07:07 AM

It is good to know that the museum is constantly trying to authenticate their collection. This is not the first time that they have discovered and admitted that the provenance was suspect. James Cornelius is committed to presenting the history of Lincoln honestly and correctly.

D. Holloway · 07-20-2012, 09:52 AM

Years ago I had a near-brush with this hat, so I read the article with great interest. That its provenance is less than certain is no surprise and makes for a better news story than museum concern (many artifacts suffer nicks in their chains of custody). That there is no evidence Waller traveled to Washington City during the war does not mean that he did not travel there. Still, it might be more plausible that he gained the hat during the debates or other pre-presidential events. Even this does not mean Lincoln handed it to him. I'm not implying Waller stole it; there are many ways to obtain a hat. Dr. Holzer (a man whose scholarship I hold in high esteem) wonders what Lincoln would do for a hat having given away this one. This presumes he gave it away (perhaps it fell from his head in the rush to make a train, Waller retrieves it, and the hurried Lincoln leaves it behind) and that it was his only hat. I remember Dr. Holzer once speaking at length about what we don't know about Lincoln, even in the face of so much that has been written about the man. The hat story did not make Holzer's speech, but it underscores his point while highlighting the interesting challenges Mr. Cornelius and his staff face. Good stuff.

J. Beckert · 07-20-2012, 10:00 AM

On a tour at Hildene several years ago, a tour guide told me they believe, as President, Lincoln owned 7 stovepipe hats. How they know that - I don't know. Even in the years before his Presidency, he was earning a very good income, so maybe he wouldn't be without a spare.

This was an interesting story, but it kind of takes the wind out of my sails to hear these doubts.

RJNorton · 07-20-2012, 11:37 AM

Joe, I sure hope to make it to Hildene some day. I have wanted to go for years. Currently we are planning to come north in April of 2015 because of the recreated funeral train and a great fascination to see it go by. Possibly we'll somehow fit Hildene into that trip, too. A lot depends on my ailing back.

J. Beckert · 07-20-2012, 11:46 AM

Let me know if you do, Roger. RTL invented location, location, location. The home is on a promontory overlooking the Battenkill valley. A beautiful view and the house itself is gorgeous. He picked a perfect location.

Craig Hipkins · 07-20-2012, 04:51 PM

(07-20-2012 11:37 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Joe, I sure hope to make it to Hildene some day. I have wanted to go for years. Currently we are planning to come north in April of 2015 because of the recreated funeral train and a great fascination to see it go by. Possibly we'll somehow fit Hildene into that trip, too. A lot depends on my ailing back.

Roger,
Hildene is a great place to visit. My wife and I toured the house and grounds back in 1998. Unfortunately it was raining so our tour of the grounds was limited. There is an observatory on the site but they had it closed up when we were there. I would have liked to inspect the nice refractor telescope that is there.

Craig

RJNorton · 07-20-2012, 05:01 PM

Hi Craig. Several years ago forum member Joe Di Cola sent me some Robert Lincoln-related photos, some of which are quite rare. Included is a photo of that observatory you mentioned. The photos Joe sent me are part of my web page here.

I am not sure Robert was a single digit handicapper, but I bet he could beat President Taft!

Craig Hipkins · 07-20-2012, 06:17 PM

(07-20-2012 05:01 PM)RJNorton Wrote: Hi Craig. Several years ago forum member Joe Di Cola sent me some Robert Lincoln-related photos, some of which are quite rare. Included is a photo of that observatory you mentioned. The photos Joe sent me are part of my web page here.

I am not sure Robert was a single digit handicapper, but I bet he could beat President Taft!

Roger, Those are some good pictures. I read somewhere, and I forget exactly where I read this (maybe at hildene) but apparently the telescope that is in the observatory now replaced an older one that R.T.L had installed there.
I bet you that Ike would have beat both Taft and Lincoln!
Craig

RJNorton · 07-21-2012, 04:26 AM

Craig, I suspect you're correct as long as the course they were playing was not filled with Eisenhower Trees!

Rob Wick · (This post was last modified: 07-21-2012 07:47 AM by Rob Wick.)

As for the photo of the speech at Knox College, according to Penelope Niven, Sandburg was in the audience, although she called it "a thoroughly forgettable speech." (Niven, Carl Sandburg: A Biography, pg. 30).

Best
Rob

Craig Hipkins · 07-21-2012, 09:45 PM

(07-21-2012 04:26 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Craig, I suspect you're correct as long as the course they were playing was not filled with Eisenhower Trees!

Roger
Indeed!

Craig