Justice Long Delayed

[David Lockmiller]

New York Times
June 16, 2023

Just over a year before the attack on Pearl Harbor, 15 sailors assigned to the U.S.S. Philadelphia wrote a letter to a Black newspaper detailing the abuse and indignities they had faced on the warship solely because of the color of their skin.

When they enlisted, the Navy had promised training and assignments that would lead to advancement, but the Black sailors soon found that those opportunities did not exist for them. They were forced to be servants for the ship’s officers, “limited to waiting on tables and making beds” as so-called mess attendants, they wrote.

For daring to speak out, a few of the men were jailed and all of them were kicked out of the Navy with discharges that forever labeled them as unfit to serve.

The plight of the group, which became known as “the Philadelphia 15,” faded from public attention as World War II erupted. But the injustice they faced, and the stigma their discharge papers carried, lived on for more than 80 years.

On Friday, in a ceremony at the Pentagon’s Hall of Heroes, four surviving family members of two of those men, brothers John and James Ponder, accepted a formal apology from the Navy for the racist treatment their loved ones had endured as sailors aboard their ship.

The service also presented the family with newly issued honorable discharges for the Ponder brothers and announced that the discharges for the rest of the Philadelphia 15 had been upgraded as well.

“This is something — a wrong that shouldn’t have happened,” Larry Ponder, 72, son of John Ponder, said in an interview. “My dad and the Philadelphia 15, they were just whistle-blowers. All they did was inform the general public about them being mistreated.”

“They tried to do what was right through the chain of command but it didn’t go anywhere — so they wrote that letter.”

*******************************************************************

These following President Lincoln remarks were recorded in the diary of Judge Joseph T. Mills and were based on a conversation he and others had with the President four days prior to the issuance of President Lincoln’s “blind memorandum” on August 23, 1864.

“There have been men who have proposed to me to return to slavery the black warriors of Port Hudson & Olustee to their masters to conciliate the South. I should be damned in time & in eternity for so doing. The world shall know that I will keep my faith to friends & enemies, come what will."

[David Lockmiller]

Andersonville National Historic Site notes:

In May of 1863, the Confederate Congress passed a joint resolution that formalized [Confederate President Jefferson] Davis' proclamation that Black soldiers taken prisoner would not be exchanged. In mid-July 1863 this became a reality, as several prisoners from the 54th Massachusetts were not exchanged with the rest of the white soldiers who participated in the assault on Fort Wagner.

On July 30, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln issued General Order 252, which effectively suspended the Dix-Hill Cartel [prisoner exchange agreement] until the Confederate forces agreed to treat Black prisoners the same as White prisoners. The Confederate forces declined to do so at that time, and large-scale prisoner exchanges largely ceased by August 1863.” When Ulysses Grant took command, he was tasked with reevaluating this policy, and his April 17, 1864 order continued the Lincoln administration’s previous commitment.

[David Lockmiller]

I suddenly woke up this morning before 5 AM and realized something important.

There is now a national holiday to honor the day two years after the Civil War that black slaves in Texas were informed that they had been freed by the Emancipation Proclamation and the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The slaves of the South could have been informed of their freedom long before but Frederick Douglass refused a military commission as a Major to inform slaves in the South that they had been granted their freedom. Douglass was perfectly willing to let his own sons risk life and limb as members of the Massachusetts 54th (as I recall) but he was not willing to risk his own life to inform the slaves of the South of their freedom. Should not those black warriors who served and fought for the Union and the freedom of all slaves be especially honored today?

And, as for reparations, should not 90 percent come from the progeny of those who initially enslaved Africans for perpetuity and accepted in return financial rewards and "modern" military weapons in order to enslave even more African tribes for perpetuity?

[David Lockmiller]

(06-18-2023 07:55 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  I suddenly woke up this morning before 5 AM and realized something important.

There is now a national holiday to honor the day two years after the Civil War that black slaves in Texas were informed that they had been freed by the Emancipation Proclamation and the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The slaves of the South could have been informed of their freedom long before but Frederick Douglass refused a military commission as a Major to inform slaves in the South that they had been granted their freedom. Douglass was perfectly willing to let his own sons risk life and limb as members of the Massachusetts 54th (as I recall) but he was not willing to risk his own life to inform the slaves of the South of their freedom. Should not those black warriors who served and fought for the Union and the freedom of all slaves be especially honored today?

And, as for reparations, should not 90 percent come from the progeny of those who initially enslaved Africans for perpetuity and accepted in return financial rewards and "modern" military weapons in order to enslave even more African tribes for perpetuity?

"Frederick Douglass lamented that the words of the Proclamation 'touched neither justice nor mercy. Had there been one expression of sound moral feeling against Slavery, one word of regret and shame that this accursed system had remained so long the disgrace and scandal of the Republic, one word of satisfaction in the hope of burying slavery and the rebellion in one common grave, a thrill of joy would have run round the world.'" (Douglass's Monthly, January, 1863. (Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, pp 410-411.)

[Steve]

(06-18-2023 07:55 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  The slaves of the South could have been informed of their freedom long before but Frederick Douglass refused a military commission as a Major to inform slaves in the South that they had been granted their freedom. Douglass was perfectly willing to let his own sons risk life and limb as members of the Massachusetts 54th (as I recall) but he was not willing to risk his own life to inform the slaves of the South of their freedom. Should not those black warriors who served and fought for the Union and the freedom of all slaves be especially honored today?

That's not accurate. In 1863, Douglass went to Washington and met with both Lincoln and Stanton to advocate for equal treatment for Black soldiers. During his meeting with Stanton, Stanton surprised Douglass by offering him a commission to become an officer in the Army and using him to recruit escaped/freed slaves in the Mississippi Valley into enlisting in the Union Army. Douglass agreed to the proposal and told Stanton to send his commission to his home in Rochester in a couple of weeks. The commission never arrived and Douglass wrote to the War Department that he had not received his commission yet. The War Department responded by sending this letter:



But they didn't send a commission to Douglass along with the letter, so obviously he didn't go.

[Gene C]

Nice handwriting and the lines are straight.
Obviously a product of an antiquated education system

[David Lockmiller]

(06-20-2023 09:46 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(06-18-2023 07:55 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  The slaves of the South could have been informed of their freedom long before but Frederick Douglass refused a military commission as a Major to inform slaves in the South that they had been granted their freedom. Douglass was perfectly willing to let his own sons risk life and limb as members of the Massachusetts 54th (as I recall) but he was not willing to risk his own life to inform the slaves of the South of their freedom. Should not those black warriors who served and fought for the Union and the freedom of all slaves be especially honored today?

That's not accurate. In 1863, Douglass went to Washington and met with both Lincoln and Stanton to advocate for equal treatment for Black soldiers. During his meeting with Stanton, Stanton surprised Douglass by offering him a commission to become an officer in the Army and using him to recruit escaped/freed slaves in the Mississippi Valley into enlisting in the Union Army. Douglass agreed to the proposal and told Stanton to send his commission to his home in Rochester in a couple of weeks. The commission never arrived and Douglass wrote to the War Department that he had not received his commission yet. The War Department responded by sending this letter:



But they didn't send a commission to Douglass along with the letter, so obviously he didn't go.

Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Volume Two, pp. 676-677.

On August 19, 1864, Lincoln and Douglass met for the second time.

Turning to the danger presented by a Democratic victory, Lincoln told Douglass that the “slaves are not coming so rapidly and so numerously to us as I had hoped.” (The situation had changed since 1862, when he had informed Orville Browning that the flood of escaped slaves posed a significant problem.)

Douglass “replied that the slaveholders knew how to keep such things from their slaves, and probably very few knew of his Proclamation.”

With “great earnestness and much solicitude,” the president said: “I want you to set about devising some means of making them acquainted with it, and for bringing them into our lines.” (In a letter written days after their conversation, Douglass referred to the president’s “suggestion that something should be speedily done to inform the slaves in the Rebel states of the true state of affairs in relation to them” and “to warn them as to what will be their probable condition should peace be concluded while they remain within the Rebel lines: and more especially to urge upon them the necessity of making their escape.”) Months later, Douglass recalled that Lincoln’s words that day “showed a deeper moral conviction against slavery than I had ever seen before in anything spoken or written by him.” Lincoln said: "Douglass, I hate slavery as much as you do, and I want to see it abolished altogether.” The black orator agreed to help organize an effort to recruit a band of black scouts “whose business should be somewhat after the original plan of John Brown, to go into the rebel states, beyond the lines of our armies, and carry the news of emancipation, and urge the slaves to come within our boundaries.” (footnote 177 in the published book – Douglass, Life and Times, 435.)

[Apparently, on this occasion, the offer of the commission as a Major came from my fallible memory. At least, I could not find where Douglass was offered a commission to head this important task.)

[David Lockmiller]

In reference to the first meeting that Frederick Douglass had with President Lincoln at the White House (to which Steve's post refers), Douglass wrote as follows regarding this meeting in his Chapter IX contribution to the book Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time (Collected and edited by Allen Thorndike Rice, Editor of the North American Review) pages 184 - 195:

"I was introduced to Mr. Lincoln on this occasion by Senator Pomeroy, of Kansas; I met him at the Executive Mansion." (page 185)

"Before leaving Mr. Lincoln, Senator Pomeroy said: 'Mr. President, Mr. Stanton is going to make Douglass Adjutant-General to General Thomas, and is going to send him down the Mississippi to recruit.'

Mr. Lincoln said in answer to this: 'I will sign any commission that Mr. Stanton will give Mr. Douglass.'

At this point we parted." (page 189)

There is no mention whatsoever in the Douglass chapter of the same book as to why the commission
was not issued and signed by President Lincoln.

There is no mention whatsoever in the Douglass chapter regarding their meeting on August 19, 1864, [when] Lincoln and Douglass met for the second time.

So, it remains a great mystery regarding the outcome of the second meeting request made by President Lincoln in the following manner:

With “great earnestness and much solicitude,” the president said: “I want you to set about devising some means of making them acquainted with it, and for bringing them into our lines.” (from the unabridged transcript on the Knox College website)

If Frederick Douglass had complied with President Lincoln's urgent request, the slaves in Galveston, Texas would have learned much sooner than they did that their bonds of slavery had been broken by the Emancipation Proclamation.

[Steve]

(06-22-2023 11:01 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  "Before leaving Mr. Lincoln, Senator Pomeroy said: 'Mr. President, Mr. Stanton is going to make Douglass Adjutant-General to General Thomas, and is going to send him down the Mississippi to recruit.'

Mr. Lincoln said in answer to this: 'I will sign any commission that Mr. Stanton will give Mr. Douglass.'

At this point we parted." (page 189)

There is no mention whatsoever in the Douglass chapter of the same book as to why the commission
was not issued and signed by President Lincoln.

There is no mention whatsoever in the Douglass chapter regarding their meeting on August 19, 1864, [when] Lincoln and Douglass met for the second time.

So, it remains a great mystery regarding the outcome of the second meeting request made by President Lincoln in the following manner:

With “great earnestness and much solicitude,” the president said: “I want you to set about devising some means of making them acquainted with it, and for bringing them into our lines.” (from the unabridged transcript on the Knox College website)

If Frederick Douglass had complied with President Lincoln's urgent request, the slaves in Galveston, Texas would have learned much sooner than they did that their bonds of slavery had been broken by the Emancipation Proclamation.

Douglass wasn't issued a commission, therefore he didn't go. What part of that is too difficult to understand? Why do you seem to want to blame Douglass for the War Department's missteps?

[David Lockmiller]

(06-24-2023 12:10 AM)Steve Wrote:  Douglass wasn't issued a commission, therefore he didn't go. What part of that is too difficult to understand? Why do you seem to want to blame Douglass for the War Department's missteps?

Doris Kearns Goodwin wrote in Team of Rivals, pages 551-53:

Douglas laid before the president the discriminatory measures that were frustrating his recruiting efforts. "Mr. Lincoln listened with earnest attention and with very apparent sympathy," he recalled. "Upon my ceasing to speak [he] proceeded with an earnestness and fluency of which I had not suspected him." Lincoln first recognized the indisputable justice of the demand for equal pay. When Congress passed the bill for black soldiers, he explained, it "seemed a necessary concession to smooth the way to their employment at all as soldiers, "but he promised that "in the end they shall have the same pay as white soldiers." As for the absence of black officers, Lincoln assured Douglass that "he would sign any commission to colored soldiers whom his Secretary of War should commend to him."

Later that same day, Douglass met with Stanton.

"[O]nce Douglass began to outline much the same issues he had addressed with the president, "contempt and suspicion and brusqueness had all disappeared from his face," and Stanton, too, promised "that justice would ultimately be done." Indeed, Stanton had already implored Congress to remove the discriminatory wage and bounty provisions, which it would eventually do. Impressed by Douglass, Stanton promised to make him an assistant adjutant general assigned to Lorenzo Thomas, then charged with recruiting black soldiers in the Mississippi Valley. The War Department followed up with an offer of a $100-a-month salary plus subsistence and transportation, but the commission was not included. Douglass declined: "I knew too much of camp life and the value of shoulder straps in the army to go into the service without some visible mark of my rank."

One must contrast this written statement by Doris Kearns Goodwin with the statement made by Frederick Douglass in his Chapter IX contribution to the book Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time (Collected and edited by Allen Thorndike Rice, Editor of the North American Review) quoting President Lincoln somewhat as follows:

Now, as to pay, we had to make some concession to prejudice. There were threats that if we made soldiers of them at all white men would not enlist, would not fight beside them. Besides, it was not believed that a negro could make a good soldier, as good as soldier as a white man, and hence it was thought that he should not have the same pay as white man. But, said he,

"I assure you, Mr. Douglass, that in the end they shall have the same pay as white soldiers."

[Please note at this point, on page 188, that Frederick Douglass makes no reference at all to colored soldiers being commissioned as officers on the recommendation of Secretary Stanton and the signature approval thereof by President Lincoln.]

However, page 189 states:

"Before leaving Mr. Lincoln, Senator Pomeroy said: 'Mr. President, Mr. Stanton is going to make Douglass Adjutant-General to General Thomas, and is going to send him down the Mississippi to recruit.'

Mr. Lincoln said in answer to this: 'I will sign any commission that Mr. Stanton will give Mr. Douglass.'

At this point we parted."

[Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Was not the initial offer by Secretary Stanton made AFTER the meeting of Frederick Douglass with President Lincoln earlier that same day?]

Steve, I will let you judge for yourself just how honest Frederick Douglass was. I have my own opinion on the subject.

[Steve]

Here is Douglass's 1881 account of the meeting, from his book which Goodwin quoted from:


My efforts to secure just and fair treatment for the colored soldiers did not stop at letters and speeches. At the suggestion of my friend, Major Stearns, to whom the foregoing letter was addressed, I was induced to go to Washington and lay the complaints of my people before President Lincoln and the Secretary of War and to urge upon them such action as should secure to the colored troops then fighting for the country a reasonable degree of fair play. I need not say that at the time I undertook this mission it required much more nerve than a similar one would require now. The distance then between the black man and the white American citizen was immeasurable. I was an ex-slave, identified with a despised race, and yet I was to meet the most exalted person in this great republic. It was altogether an unwelcome duty, and one from which I would gladly have been excused. I could not know what kind of a reception would be accorded me. I might be told to go home and mind my business, and leave such questions as I had come to discuss to be managed by the men wisely chosen by the American people to deal with them. Or I might be refused an interview altogether. Nevertheless, I felt bound to go, and my acquaintance with Senators Charles Sumner, Henry Wilson, Samuel Pomeroy, Secretary Salmon P. Chase, Secretary William H. Seward, and Assistant Secretary of War Charles A. Dana encouraged me to hope at least for a civil reception. My confidence was fully justified in the result. I shall never forget my first interview with this great man. I was accompanied to the executive mansion and introduced to President Lincoln by Senator Pomeroy. The room in which he received visitors was the one now used by the President's secretaries. I entered it with a moderate estimate of my own consequence, and yet there I was to talk with, and even to advise, the head man of a great nation. Happily for me, there was no vain pomp and ceremony about him. I was never more quickly or more completely put at ease in the presence of a great man than in that of Abraham Lincoln. He was seated, when I entered, in a low armchair with his feet extended on the floor, surrounded by a large number of documents and several busy secretaries. The room bore the marks of business, and the persons in it, the President included, appeared to be much over-worked and tired. Long lines of care were already deeply written on Mr. Lincoln's brow, and his strong face, full of earnestness, lighted up as soon as my name was mentioned. As I approached and was introduced to him he arose and extended his hand, and bade me welcome. I at once felt myself in the presence of an honest man--one whom I could love, honor, and trust without reserve or doubt. Proceeding to tell him who I was and what I was doing, he promptly, but kindly, stopped me, saying: "I know who you are, Mr. Douglass; Mr. Seward has told me all about you. Sit down. I am glad to see you." I then told him the object of my visit: that I was assisting to raise colored troops; that several months before I had been very successful in getting men to enlist, but that now it was not easy to induce the colored men to enter the service, because there was a feeling among them that the government did not, in several respects, deal fairly with them. Mr. Lincoln asked me to state particulars. I replied that there were three particulars which I wished to bring to his attention. First, that colored soldiers ought to receive the same wages as those paid to white soldiers. Second, that colored soldiers ought to receive the same protection when taken prisoners, and be exchanged as readily and on the same terms as any other prisoners, and if Jefferson Davis should shoot or hang colored soldiers in cold blood the United States government should, without delay, retaliate in kind and degree upon Confederate prisoners in its hands. Third, when colored soldiers, seeking "the bubble reputation at the cannon's mouth," performed great and uncommon service on the battle-field, they should be rewarded by distinction and promotion precisely as white soldiers are rewarded for like services.

Mr. Lincoln listened with patience and silence to all I had to say. He was serious and even troubled by what I had said and by what he himself had evidently before thought upon the same points. He, by his silent listening not less than by his earnest reply to my words, impressed me with the solid gravity of his character.

He began by saying that the employment of colored troops at all was a great gain to the colored people; that the measure could not have been successfully adopted at the beginning of the war; that the wisdom of making colored men soldiers was still doubted; that their enlistment was a serious offense to popular prejudice; that they had larger motives for being soldiers than white men; that they ought to be willing to enter the service upon any condition; that the fact that they were not to receive the same pay as white soldiers seemed a necessary concession to smooth the way to their employment at all as soldiers, but that ultimately they would receive the same. On the second point, in respect to equal protection, he said the case was more difficult. Retaliation was a terrible remedy, and one which it was very difficult to apply; that, if once begun, there was no telling where it would end; that if he could get hold of the Confederate soldiers who had been guilty of treating colored soldiers as felons he could easily retaliate, but the thought of hanging men for a crime perpetrated by others was revolting to his feelings. He thought that the rebels themselves would stop such barbarous warfare; that less evil would be done if retaliation were not resorted to and that he had already received information that colored soldiers were being treated as prisoners of war. In all this I saw the tender heart of the man rather than the stern warrior and commander-in-chief of the American army and navy, and, while I could not agree with him, I could but respect his humane spirit.

On the third point he appeared to have less difficulty, though he did not absolutely commit himself. He simply said that he would sign any commission to colored soldiers whom his Secretary of War should commend to him. Though I was not entirely satisfied with his views, I was so well satisfied with the man and with the educating tendency of the conflict that I determined to go on with the recruiting.

From the President I went to see Secretary Stanton. The manner of no two men could be more widely different. I was introduced by Assistant Secretary Dana, whom I had known many years before at "Brook Farm," Mass., and afterward as managing editor of the New York Tribune. Every line in Mr. Stanton's face told me that my communication with him must be brief, clear, and to the point; that he might turn his back upon me as a bore at any moment; that politeness was not one of his weaknesses. His first glance was that of a man who says: "Well, what do you want? I have no time to waste upon you or anybody else, and I shall waste none. Speak quick, or I shall leave you." The man and the place seemed alike busy. Seeing I had no time to lose, I hastily went over the ground I had gone over to President Lincoln. As I ended I was surprised by seeing a changed man before me. Contempt and suspicion and brusqueness had all disappeared from his face and manner, and for a few minutes he made the best defense that I had then heard from anybody of the treatment of colored soldiers by the government. I was not satisfied, yet I left in the full belief that the true course to the black man's freedom and citizenship was over the battle-field, and that my business was to get every black man I could into the Union armies. Both the President and Secretary of War assured me that justice would ultimately be done my race, and I gave full faith and credit to their promise. On assuring Mr. Stanton of my willingness to take a commission, he said he would make me assistant adjutant to General Thomas, who was then recruiting and organizing troops in the Mississippi valley. He asked me how soon I could be ready. I told him in two weeks, and that my commission might be sent to me at Rochester. For some reason, however, my commission never came. The government, I fear, was still clinging to the idea that positions of honor in the service should be occupied by white men, and that it would not do to inaugurate just then the policy of perfect equality. I wrote to the department for my commission, but was simply told to report to General Thomas. This was so different from what I expected and from what I had been promised that I wrote to Secretary Stanton that I would report to General Thomas on receipt of my commission, but it did not come, and I did not go to the Mississippi valley as I had fondly hoped. I knew too much of camp life and the value of shoulder straps in the army to go into the service without some visible mark of my rank. I have no doubt that Mr. Stanton in the moment of our meeting meant all he said, but thinking the matter over he felt that the time had not then come for a step so radical and aggressive. Meanwhile my three sons were in the service, Lewis and Charles, as already named, in the Massachusetts regiments, and Frederick recruiting colored troops in the Mississippi valley.

According to the well-sourced entry in the Lincoln Log website, Douglass's meeting with Lincoln was on August 10, 1863 and the letter sent to Douglass sans commission (which I posted an image of in my earlier post above) is dated August 13, 1863. So Douglass's memory 18 years later does seem to falter a little misremembering the order of events -- the letter from the War Department would likely have come before Douglass would've had a chance to write a letter to the War Department inquiring about his commission. But he clearly says Lincoln told him he would sign any Black officer's commission the War Department sent him. The only mention of Douglass possibly being commissioned comes up during his later meeting with Stanton.

[David Lockmiller]

(06-25-2023 04:41 AM)Steve Wrote:  According to the well-sourced entry in the Lincoln Log website, Douglass's meeting with Lincoln was on August 10, 1863 and the letter sent to Douglass sans commission (which I posted an image of in my earlier post above) is dated August 13, 1863. So Douglass's memory 18 years later does seem to falter a little misremembering the order of events -- the letter from the War Department would likely have come before Douglass would've had a chance to write a letter to the War Department inquiring about his commission. But he clearly says Lincoln told him he would sign any Black officer's commission the War Department sent him. The only mention of Douglass possibly being commissioned comes up during his later meeting with Stanton.

I remember once that Gene jokingly made the comment on this website that "my memory is so good that I can remember things that never happened."

You wrote in your post: "But [Douglass] clearly says Lincoln told him he would sign any Black officer's commission the War Department sent him."

What President clearly said to Douglass in context in their August 10, 1863 meeting, according to Doris Kearns Goodwin, was:

Lincoln first recognized the indisputable justice of the demand for equal pay. When Congress passed the bill for black soldiers, he explained, it "seemed a necessary concession to smooth the way to their employment at all as soldiers, "but he promised that "in the end they shall have the same pay as white soldiers." As for the absence of black officers, Lincoln assured Douglass that "he would sign any commission to colored soldiers whom his Secretary of War should commend to him."

Black soldiers at the time were being paid $7 a month (after a $3 deduction for clothing). This pay scale included black combat soldiers. The War Department followed up with an offer [to Douglass] of a $100-a-month salary plus subsistence and transportation.

Douglass: "Though I was not entirely satisfied with [Lincoln's] views, I was so well satisfied with the man and with the educating tendency of the conflict that I determined to go on with the recruiting."

But the bottom line for Douglass: No commission; no recruiting.