Ignorance of the law is no defense. How did Abraham Lincoln learn this fact?

[David Lockmiller]

Please provide the details and the source of your information.

[RJNorton]

I am not sure this story fits what you are asking, but I shall post it anyway as I do not think Lincoln knew the pertinent Kentucky law beforehand. The story comes from Louis A. Warren's Lincoln's Youth - Indiana Years, 1816-1830." (pp. 146-147)

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"During his spare time Abe had built a small row boat at the Ohio River landing. One day, two men came up and singling out him and his boat, asked him to row them with their luggage to a packet that was coming down river. He agreed, and carried them out to the waiting steamer and saw them and their gear safely aboard. Before they steamed away they each tossed a silver half dollar into his little boat. He could scarcely believe his eyes—"a poor . . . boy [earning] a dollar in less than a day." The "world seemed wider and fairer" and he was "a more hopeful and confident being from that time."

Apparently after that he offered such service to other steamer passengers and his private little business finally got him into the clutches of the law. Two brothers who lived on the Kentucky side of the river, John T. and Len Dill, had the ferry rights across the Ohio from a point opposite Anderson River. They regarded Abraham's ferrying of steamer passengers as an encroachment upon their jurisdiction, and had him brought before Samuel Pate, a justice of the peace near Lewisport, Kentucky. The pertinent clause of Kentucky law was read : "... if any person whatsoever shall, for reward, set any person over any river or creek, whereupon public ferries are appointed, he or she so offending shall forfeit and pay five pounds current money, for every such offence, one moiety to the ferry-keeper nearest the place where such offence shall be committed, the other moiety to the informer; and if such ferry-keeper informs, he shall have the whole penalty, to be recovered with costs."

The evidence presented revealed that Abraham had limited his operations to depositing his passengers on board steamers in the middle of the river, and that he had never ferried any of them clear across the Ohio. The magistrate ruled that inasmuch as there was no occasion cited on which he had "set any person over [or across] any river or creek/' he was released from the charge."

[David Lockmiller]

(04-21-2020 12:17 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I am not sure this story fits what you are asking, but I shall post it anyway as I do not think Lincoln knew the pertinent Kentucky law beforehand. The story comes from Louis A. Warren's Lincoln's Youth - Indiana Years, 1816-1830." (pp. 146-147)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"During his spare time Abe had built a small row boat at the Ohio River landing. One day, two men came up and singling out him and his boat, asked him to row them with their luggage to a packet that was coming down river. He agreed, and carried them out to the waiting steamer and saw them and their gear safely aboard. Before they steamed away they each tossed a silver half dollar into his little boat. He could scarcely believe his eyes—"a poor . . . boy [earning] a dollar in less than a day." The "world seemed wider and fairer" and he was "a more hopeful and confident being from that time."

Apparently after that he offered such service to other steamer passengers and his private little business finally got him into the clutches of the law. Two brothers who lived on the Kentucky side of the river, John T. and Len Dill, had the ferry rights across the Ohio from a point opposite Anderson River. They regarded Abraham's ferrying of steamer passengers as an encroachment upon their jurisdiction, and had him brought before Samuel Pate, a justice of the peace near Lewisport, Kentucky. The pertinent clause of Kentucky law was read : "... if any person whatsoever shall, for reward, set any person over any river or creek, whereupon public ferries are appointed, he or she so offending shall forfeit and pay five pounds current money, for every such offence, one moiety to the ferry-keeper nearest the place where such offence shall be committed, the other moiety to the informer; and if such ferry-keeper informs, he shall have the whole penalty, to be recovered with costs."

The evidence presented revealed that Abraham had limited his operations to depositing his passengers on board steamers in the middle of the river, and that he had never ferried any of them clear across the Ohio. The magistrate ruled that inasmuch as there was no occasion cited on which he had "set any person over [or across] any river or creek/' he was released from the charge."

You are correct, Roger. But I thought that the actual source that you would use was the book that both Gene and you recently recommended, A Lincoln, Prairie Lawyer. I will post that account in a different post later today. I purchased the book based on your joint recommendation and found the story on pages 4-5. I actually prefer John Duff's (the author) account; it is much more dramatic and one can imagine Abraham's Lincoln reaction as events unfolded.

[Gene C]

I don't know about "ignorance of the law is no excuse", but I have often heard "you can't fix stupid"

Which reminds me of an old Frank Sinatra song, I can't recall the title, but I do remember it's something stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQM9kEBRWI

[David Lockmiller]

(04-21-2020 01:54 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  

(04-21-2020 12:17 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I am not sure this story fits what you are asking

You are correct, Roger. But I thought that the actual source that you would use was the book that both Gene and you recently recommended, A Lincoln, Prairie Lawyer. I will post that account in a different post later today. I purchased the book based on your joint recommendation and found the story on pages 4-5. I actually prefer John Duff's (the author) account; it is much more dramatic and one can imagine Abraham's Lincoln reaction as events unfolded.

The book's author, attorney John Duff, spoke as a good attorney would do in describing Abraham Lincoln's circumstances and situation at the time:

Working backward in time, one learns that in 1827 [Abraham Lincoln] had a foretaste of his future calling when hailed before Squire Samuel Pate, farmer and justice of the peace near Lewisport, Kentucky – charged, on the complaint of two licensed ferrymen, John and Lin Dill, with operating a ferryboat without a license, in violation of the Ohio River ferry ordinance. Unaware of any statutory restriction, Lincoln, having built a small flatboat, was transporting travelers, for hire, from the Indiana shore of the Ohio River to steamers in midstream. The complainants, owners of the duly licensed ferryboat operating from the Kentucky shore, after luring the unsuspecting Lincoln to their bank of the river, induced him to accompany them to the home of Squire Pate, where John Dill sued out a warrant.

Lincoln’s defense was ignorance of the law, which, as every layman now knows, is no defense at all. Squire Pate, doubtless impressed with the forthrightness of the youthful defendant, proceeded to consult the statue book and, after reading the pertinent section, came up with the legally sound observation that the statute was directed against transportation across the river, and not to steamers located in midstream. The proceeding was dismissed, whereupon Lincoln expressed his gratitude to the Squire, who invited him to attend his “court” whenever in the neighborhood, an invitation which one may be sure Lincoln was not slow in taking advantage of.

Oh, I wanted to add that Roger stole my thunder on Lincoln's "first dollar" story. I had already planned on making that story the subject of a follow-up trivia question. But Roger gave the answer before I asked the question. Roger was being prescient, no doubt.

But time, manner, and place are important in telling stories. The answer to the question that I would have posed is somewhere in the book (I believe), Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln, by Distinguished Men of His Time (1888). Lincoln was telling his "first dollar" story to Secretary of State Seward in a first-hand narrative form. I will find the story and post it as found, hopefully later today.

---

(04-21-2020 02:05 PM)Gene C Wrote:  I don't know about "ignorance of the law is no excuse", but I have often heard "you can't fix stupid"

Which reminds me of an old Frank Sinatra song, I can't recall the title, but I do remember it's something stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQM9kEBRWI

Beautiful song together that was dominated by the voice of Frank Sinatra, but in perfect harmony by Nancy Sinatra, almost like a "shadow" of his voice.

[David Lockmiller]

Note: This work is a conglomerate of two versions of the same story: The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months at the White House, by F. B. Carpenter, (1879), chap. XXXII, pages 96-98; Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln, by Distinguished Men of His Time, Allen Thorndike Rice, collector and editor, (1888), chap. XIV (William D. Kelley), pages 279-80. Roger also included a much shorter version of this same story in his post #3 on this same thread. I do not know where and when this story was originally published.


One evening when a few gentlemen, among whom was Mr. Seward, had met in the Executive Chamber without special business, and were talking of the past, the President said, “Seward, you never heard, did you, how I earned my first dollar?” “No,” rejoined Mr. Seward.

“Well,” continued Mr. Lincoln, I was about eighteen years of age, I belonged, you know, to what they call down South, the ‘scrubs;’ people who do not own slaves are nobody there. But we had succeeded in raising, chiefly by my labor, sufficient produce, as I thought, to justify me in taking it down the river to sell.

“After much persuasion, I got the consent of mother to go, and constructed a little flatboat, large enough to take a barrel or two of things that we had gathered, with myself and little bundle, down to New Orleans. A steamer was coming down the river. We have, you know, no wharves on the Western streams; and the custom was, if passengers were at any of the landings, for them to go out in a boat, the steamer stopping and taking them on board.

“I was contemplating my new flatboat, and wondering whether I could make it stronger or improve it in any particular, when two men came down to the shore in carriages with trunks, and looking at the different boats singled out mine, and asked, ‘Who owns this?’ I answered, somewhat modestly, ‘I do.’ ‘Will you,’ said one of them, ‘take us and our trunks out to the steamer?’ ‘Certainly,’ said I. I was very glad to have the chance of earning something. I supposed that each of them would give me two or three bits. The trunks were put on my flatboat, the passengers seated themselves on the trunks, and I sculled them out to the steamboat.

“They got on board, and I lifted up their heavy trunks, and put them on deck. The steamer was about to put on steam again, when I called out that they had forgotten to pay me. Each of them took from his pocket a silver half-dollar, and threw it on the floor of my boat. I could scarcely believe my eyes as I picked up the money.

“You may think it was a very little thing, and in these days it seems to me like a trifle, but it was a most important incident in my life. I could scarcely credit that I, a poor boy, had earned a dollar in less than a day, -- that by honest work I had earned a dollar. The world seemed wider and fairer before me. I was a more hopeful and confident being from that time.”

Note: This work is a conglomerate of two versions of the same story: The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months at the White House, by F. B. Carpenter, (1879), chap. XXXII, pages 96-98; Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln, by Distinguished Men of His Time, Allen Thorndike Rice, collector and editor, chap. XIV (William D. Kelley), pages 279-80.

[David Lockmiller]

(04-24-2020 12:04 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  “You may think it was a very little thing, and in these days it seems to me like a trifle, but it was a most important incident in my life. I could scarcely credit that I, a poor boy, had earned a dollar in less than a day, -- that by honest work I had earned a dollar. The world seemed wider and fairer before me. I was a more hopeful and confident being from that time.”

Note: This work is a conglomerate of two versions of the same story: The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln, Six Months at the White House, by F. B. Carpenter, (1879), chap. XXXII, pages 96-98; Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln, by Distinguished Men of His Time, Allen Thorndike Rice, collector and editor, chap. XIV (William D. Kelley), pages 279-80.

The version by William Kelley ended with the following words which for me have a distinctly different meaning: "The world seemed wider and fairer before me; I was a more hopeful and thoughtful boy from that time."

Does anyone know when and by whom the original story was first published?

Six Months at the White House version was published in 1879 by F. B. Carpenter and no claim is made that this is a first-hand account. And, Kelley who in the 1888 publication describes the occasion as "one evening when a few gentlemen, among whom was Mr. Seward . . . ." does not mention himself as one of the participants.

[RJNorton]

(04-27-2020 11:07 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Does anyone know when and by whom the original story was first published?

David, here is an earlier version. In 1866 Josiah Gilbert Holland's The Life of Abraham Lincoln was published. Holland wrote:

"He (Lincoln) had learned the use of tools, and possessed considerable mechanical talent, as will appear in some other acts of his life. Of the voyage and its results we have no knowledge, but an incident occurred before starting which he related in later life to his Secretary of State, Mr. Seward, that made a very marked and pleasant impression upon his memory. As he stood at the landing, a steamer approached, coming down the river. At the same time two passengers came to the river's bank who wished to be taken out to the packet with their luggage. Looking among the boats at the landing, they singled out Abraham's, and asked him to scull them to the steamer. This he did, and after seeing them and their trunks on board, he had the pleasure of receiving upon the bottom of his boat, before he shoved off, a silver half dollar from each of his passengers. "I could scarcely believe my eyes," said Mr. Lincoln, in telling the story. "You may think it was a very little thing," continued he, "but it was a most important incident in my life. I could scarcely believe that I, a poor boy, had earned a dollar in less than a day. The world seemed wider and fairer before me. I was a more hopeful and confident being from that time."


https://archive.org/stream/lifeofabraham...l_djvu.txt

[David Lockmiller]

(04-27-2020 11:38 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  

(04-27-2020 11:07 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Does anyone know when and by whom the original story was first published?

David, here is an earlier version. In 1866 Josiah Gilbert Holland's The Life of Abraham Lincoln was published. Holland wrote:

"He (Lincoln) had learned the use of tools, and possessed considerable mechanical talent, as will appear in some other acts of his life. Of the voyage and its results we have no knowledge, but an incident occurred before starting which he related in later life to his Secretary of State, Mr. Seward, that made a very marked and pleasant impression upon his memory. As he stood at the landing, a steamer approached, coming down the river. At the same time two passengers came to the river's bank who wished to be taken out to the packet with their luggage. Looking among the boats at the landing, they singled out Abraham's, and asked him to scull them to the steamer. This he did, and after seeing them and their trunks on board, he had the pleasure of receiving upon the bottom of his boat, before he shoved off, a silver half dollar from each of his passengers. "I could scarcely believe my eyes," said Mr. Lincoln, in telling the story. "You may think it was a very little thing," continued he, "but it was a most important incident in my life. I could scarcely believe that I, a poor boy, had earned a dollar in less than a day. The world seemed wider and fairer before me. I was a more hopeful and confident being from that time."


https://archive.org/stream/lifeofabraham...l_djvu.txt

Thank you, Roger, for finding and posting this story. It contains the same line that I favor for an ending.

I also found in the same Chapter II at pages 29-30, the following story regarding the sermon by Parson Elkin over the grave of Lincoln's mother in Indiana:

[N]either father nor son was content to part with [Nancy Lincoln]
without a formal Christian tribute to her worth and memory.
Both thought of the good Parson Elkin
whom they had left in Kentucky; and Abraham's skill in
writing was brought into use in addressing to him a message.
His imperfect penmanship had been acquired partly in the
schools he had attended, and partly by practice in the sand
and on the barks of trees on anything and with any instrument
by which letters might be formed.

Several months after Mrs. Lincoln died, Abraham wrote a
letter to Parson Elkin, informing him of his mother's death,
and begging him to come to Indiana, and preach her funeral
sermon. It was a great favor that he thus asked of the poor
preacher. It would require him to ride on horseback nearly
a hundred miles through the wilderness ; and it is something
to be remembered to the humble itinerant's honor that he was
willing to pay this tribute of respect to the woman who had
so thoroughly honored him and his sacred office. He replied
to Abraham's invitation, that he would preach the sermon on
a certain future Sunday, and gave him liberty to notify the
neighbors of the promised service.

As the appointed day approached, notice was given to the
whole neighborhood, embracing every family within twenty
miles. Neighbor carried the notice to neighbor. It was scattered
from every little school. There was probably not a family that
did not receive intelligence of the anxiously anticipated event.

On a bright Sabbath morning, the settlers of the region
started for the cabin of the Lincolns ; and, as they gathered
in, they presented a picture worthy the pencil of the worthiest
painter. Some came in carts of the rudest construction, their
wheels consisting of sections of the huge boles of forest trees,
and every other member the product of the ax and auger ;
some came on horseback, two or three upon a horse ; others
came in wagons drawn by oxen, and still others came on foot.

Two hundred persons in all were assembled when Parson Elkin
came out from the Lincoln cabin, accompanied by the little
family, and proceeded to the tree under which the precious
dust of a wife and mother was buried. The congregation,
seated upon stumps and logs around the grave, received the
preacher and the mourning family in a silence broken only by
the songs of birds, and the murmur of insects, or the creaking
cart of some late comer.

Taking his stand at the foot of the grave,
Parson Elkin lifted his voice in prayer and sacred song,
and then preached a sermon. The occasion, the eager faces
around him, and all the sweet influences of the morning, inspired
him with an unusual fluency and fervor; and the flickering
sunlight, as it glanced through the wind-parted leaves, caught
many a tear upon the bronzed cheeks of his auditors, while
father and son were overcome by the revival of their great
grief. He spoke of the precious Christian woman who had
gone with the warm praise which she deserved, and held her
up as an example of true womanhood.

[David Lockmiller]

Roger, I found an even earlier 1865 publication of Lincoln’s “First Dollar” story in the book Abraham Lincoln: His Life and Public Services, by Phebe Ann Hanaford, at pages 156-158. And, the New York Times, in its Saturday, August 5, 1865 edition, announced the publication of this book as follows: “Messrs. Derby & Miller, of No. 5 Spruce Street, will publish, next week, The Life and Public Services of Abraham Lincoln" (a slight difference with the actual book title). The book text on page 156 prefaces the actual “First Dollar” story with this anonymous attribution commentary: Here is a story which has been “going the rounds” of the press titled “Lincoln’s First Dollar.”

[RJNorton]

Great research, David! Do you think William Seward or someone who knew Seward was the original source of the story (and told the story to a reporter)?

[David Lockmiller]

(04-28-2020 03:51 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  Great research, David! Do you think William Seward or someone who knew Seward was the original source of the story (and told the story to a reporter)?

Thank you, Roger, for the compliment. It might well have been Seward. But it could also have been any other person who was in attendance.