Are those stories about Mary abusive to Abraham overstated???

[Mylye2222]

I'd add: Yes MTL was capable of abuse. But she was also able of tenderness.
In Carl Sandburgs book "The Prairie Years and the War Years", there's recollection of a story involving MTL act of kindness.

One day, in the morning, a young woman called at the Executive Mansion. With her were three kids, the latter of small age, a little older than a baby. She entered the hall, but was told that the President was helding Cabinet meeting. Therefore, the poor lady took her kids to the East Room, sat them on the floor and told a staff member she intended, as her husband died in battlefield and she couldn't anymore take care of them, to simply leave them to an for the President Lincoln. She was ascertained to have been a "deranged mind provoked by deep affliction". Soon Mary Lincoln was found and dealt with the singular case. She gave humanitarian directions for the distressed family to be taken care of.

Unfortunately the rest of the story is lost, we don't know how this family ended, I hope well and relieved, but it shows that Mary also could display the same level of her husband's compassion.

[L Verge]

(01-11-2020 02:39 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote:  I'd add: Yes MTL was capable of abuse. But she was also able of tenderness.
In Carl Sandburgs book "The Prairie Years and the War Years", there's recollection of a story involving MTL act of kindness.

One day, in the morning, a young woman called at the Executive Mansion. With her were three kids, the latter of small age, a little older than a baby. She entered the hall, but was told that the President was helding Cabinet meeting. Therefore, the poor lady took her kids to the East Room, sat them on the floor and told a staff member she intended, as her husband died in battlefield and she couldn't anymore take care of them, to simply leave them to an for the President Lincoln. She was ascertained to have been a "deranged mind provoked by deep affliction". Soon Mary Lincoln was found and dealt with the singular case. She gave humanitarian directions for the distressed family to be taken care of.

Unfortunately the rest of the story is lost, we don't know how this family ended, I hope well and relieved, but it shows that Mary also could display the same level of her husband's compassion.

And remember the numerous visits to the soldiers that were hospitalized around Washington and arriving with fresh fruits and flowers and ready to read to them or write letters.

[David Lockmiller]

(01-11-2020 02:08 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  I am still very curious about the story of Mary's criticism of the President's speech. According to Lincoln Day-by-Day, the story of Mary's negative comment was carried the very next day, February 23, 1864, in the Washington Star. How in the world did it get into a newspaper? Can anyone possibly post the article from the February 23, 1864, edition of the Washington Star?

Roger, the main story is here.

The story is in the fifth column, halfway down, under the major heading "Local News." I read the story which goes into the sixth column, but I could not find any reference to Mary's criticism of President Lincoln's "speech" or, more precisely, his excuses for not giving a speech at the time.

Perhaps there was a separate story in another section of the day's paper.

[RJNorton]

Many thanks, David!! I just wonder if this story got "embellished" or perhaps changed to make it seem newsworthy for its "sensationalism." Despite what anyone might think of Mary Lincoln, I somehow have trouble picturing her using this kind of language toward her husband in such a public setting. I realize Professor Burlingame and many other folks can picture it (including perhaps a majority on this forum), but it's a problem for me personally.

[David Lockmiller]

(01-12-2020 12:45 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  Many thanks, David!! I just wonder if this story got "embellished" or perhaps changed to make it seem newsworthy for its "sensationalism." Despite what anyone might think of Mary Lincoln, I somehow have trouble picturing her using this kind of language toward her husband in such a public setting. I realize Professor Burlingame and many other folks can picture it (including perhaps a majority on this forum), but it's a problem for me personally.

Burlingame repeated the story in Abraham Lincoln: A Life, Vol. Two, page 784 and footnoted (#264) his source as Sandburg and Angle, Mary Lincoln: Wife and Widow (1932), 112.

Roger, you say that you "have trouble picturing her using this kind of language toward her husband in such a public setting." As I recall, the words were not spoken in the public situation of his speech, but rather to Lincoln and Oglesby while the party was awaiting the carriage. (I may be wrong on this point.)

[RJNorton]

(01-12-2020 02:40 PM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  Roger, you say that you "have trouble picturing her using this kind of language toward her husband in such a public setting." As I recall, the words were not spoken in the public situation of his speech, but rather to Lincoln and Oglesby while the party was awaiting the carriage. (I may be wrong on this point.)

I think you are right, David. That is why I wondered how in the world it got into a newspaper the very next day (if I am reading Lincoln Day-by-Day correctly). I did not mean to overstate the public nature of the comment, but I was just wondering how a reporter could have heard it.

[Mylye2222]

(01-11-2020 08:01 PM)L Verge Wrote:  

(01-11-2020 02:39 PM)Mylye2222 Wrote:  I'd add: Yes MTL was capable of abuse. But she was also able of tenderness.
In Carl Sandburgs book "The Prairie Years and the War Years", there's recollection of a story involving MTL act of kindness.

One day, in the morning, a young woman called at the Executive Mansion. With her were three kids, the latter of small age, a little older than a baby. She entered the hall, but was told that the President was helding Cabinet meeting. Therefore, the poor lady took her kids to the East Room, sat them on the floor and told a staff member she intended, as her husband died in battlefield and she couldn't anymore take care of them, to simply leave them to an for the President Lincoln. She was ascertained to have been a "deranged mind provoked by deep affliction". Soon Mary Lincoln was found and dealt with the singular case. She gave humanitarian directions for the distressed family to be taken care of.

Unfortunately the rest of the story is lost, we don't know how this family ended, I hope well and relieved, but it shows that Mary also could display the same level of her husband's compassion.

And remember the numerous visits to the soldiers that were hospitalized around Washington and arriving with fresh fruits and flowers and ready to read to them or write letters.

Yes, that's too.
At the end, Mary realized, that like her husband, she could find solace and balm on her personal suffering, by taking care of others in need. She found that way by visiting hospitals and contraband camps. Abraham stated his "office hours" were also a source of comfort when he could relieve ordinary citizens burdens.

[Rob Wick]

Quote:I think you are right, David. That is why I wondered how in the world it got into a newspaper the very next day (if I am reading Lincoln Day-by-Day correctly). I did not mean to overstate the public nature of the comment, but I was just wondering how a reporter could have heard it.

Roger,

The quote was not in the Washington Star, but rather was in the Abraham Lincoln Quarterly article of February 1945, entitled "Lincoln at the Fair." Here is the link to the article, which cites Sandburg and Angle's book on Mary as the story's source.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/a/alajournals...view=image

Best
Rob

[RJNorton]

Thanks, Rob. I am afraid I find the story pretty upsetting, especially with Robert Lincoln there to hear his mother criticize his father. I agree with David in that I think the President did a good job considering all the circumstances. The crowd seemed to enjoy the President's impromptu speech very much.

[Rob Wick]

Roger,

If one accepts the truthfulness of Mary's political sagacity (which where Lincoln is concerned I'm skeptical), criticizing the speech would have been understandable, given that Lincoln would be seeking reelection that year and every speech would count.

I wondered if Sandburg accepted a story that was spurious, but given that Paul Angle was a participant in the project, and Sandburg had been chastened by his experiences with Wilma Minor, I think the quotation was correct. There is correspondence between Sandburg and Angle where Angle corrects some mistakes that Sandburg made, and I've seen nothing in Sandburg's papers where the story is called into question.

Best
Rob

[STS Lincolnite]

(01-13-2020 04:55 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  The crowd seemed to enjoy the President's impromptu speech very much.

Lincoln seemed to have sort of a format he used for "impromptu speeches that weren't speeches." Below are his remarks on the evening of November 18, 1863 (the night before he gave his famous remarks at Gettysburg), as reported by the New York Tribune:

“I appear before you fellow citizens, merely to thank you for this compliment. The inference is a very fair one that you would hear me for a little while at least, were I to commence to make a speech. I do not appear before you for the purpose of doing so, and for several substantial reasons. The most substantial of these is that I have no speech to make. (Laughter from the crowd) In my position it is somewhat important that I should not say any foolish things. (person in the crowd yells out “If you can help it!”) -- Lincoln deftly picked up on the comment and continued--: “It very often happens that the only to help it is to say nothing at all (laughter again from the crowd) Believing that is my present condition this evening, I must beg you to excuse me from addressing you further.”

Sounds similar to the remarks that Mary apparently did not care for - his remarks on February 22, 1864 (as reported in The Daily National Republican):

"Ladies and Gentleman: I have appeared before you to apologize for not speaking rather than to speak.
This committee of yours has practised a little fraud upon me. (laughter) They did not intimate that I was expected to say anything and I am therefore totally unprepared to speak. And this taking one at a very great disadvantage, to be called up after the address of the eloquent gentleman whom we have listened, and the fine emanation of the poet who has just taken his seat.
But there is a greater objection. Everything I say, necessarly, in consequence of my position goes into print. (laughter) If it is foolish, it does not do me or the nation any good. If I make any mistakes it may do both myself and the nation harm. (applause) It is difficult to always say sensible things. I therefore hope that you will accept my sincere thanks for this charitable enterprise in which you are engaged. Withe the expression of this gratitude of mine, I hope that you will excuse me. (applause)."

[RJNorton]

Thank you Rob and Scott for your input. Another factor I thought of may have occupied Lincoln's mind at this time. The Pomeroy Circular had just come out, and possibly Lincoln's mind was on that, and he was simply void of motivation to prepare a speech for the opening of the Patent Office Fair. This is just speculation on my part, but I think an outside possibility anyway. (Yes, I realize Lincoln was under the assumption he would not have to speak.)