Thomas Lincoln

[RJNorton]

In the July 1969 Lincoln Lore, R. Gerald McMurtry wrote an article about the alleged Thomas Lincoln photograph. His conclusion:

"With little data on hand to make a case for or against the so-called Thomas Lincoln photograph no conclusions ran be reached as to its authenticity. Limited knowledge of a thing usually provokes a negative reaction, and conservative students always take a safe position until documentary facts can prove the point in question; nevertheless it is believed that if the Thomas Lincoln photograph is not genuine that hoax was perpetrated in the 1860s. It is unfortunate that this photograph was not brought to light at an earlier period and that Lieutenant Flora was not interviewed carefully by some competent historian before his death on December 23, 1915. Some revealing statement coming directly from him might have cleared up the puzzling problem."

I will add that John Hall, a nearby neighbor of Thomas and Sarah Lincoln, stated that "he was sure that Thomas Lincoln never had a picture taken of himself."

[STS Lincolnite]

We discussed the topic of the "Thomas Lincoln" photo at some length a couple of years ago in the Nancy Hanks' Lineage thread. Discussion starts with post #25 and goes to the end of the thread.

https://rogerjnorton.com/LincolnDiscussi...age-2.html

[Eva Elisabeth]

I'm afraid I lack the time to check out an entire discussion, so this might have been said before, but if I had wanted to sell an unknown photo of the president's father I would have tried to approach someone wealthier than a soldier or tried to deal with different journalists for the best price...especially if I were in need of money.

[Steve]

(07-16-2019 04:29 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I'm afraid I lack the time to check out an entire discussion, so this might have been said before, but if I had wanted to sell an unknown photo of the president's father I would have tried to approach someone wealthier than a soldier or tried to deal with different journalists for the best price...especially if I were in need of money.

Eva, the surviving photograph/print is actually a copy of the original, basically a print photograph of the original photograph. So the person(s) selling it could have been selling several copies of the photograph to different soldiers/tourists/chumps while keeping the original.

[Steve]

I found copies of the correspondence of Warren and McMurtry with Mrs. Schafer at the Internet Archive:

https://archive.org/details/thomaslincol...c_3/page/2

[Eva Elisabeth]

(07-16-2019 10:42 PM)Steve Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 04:29 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  I'm afraid I lack the time to check out an entire discussion, so this might have been said before, but if I had wanted to sell an unknown photo of the president's father I would have tried to approach someone wealthier than a soldier or tried to deal with different journalists for the best price...especially if I were in need of money.

Eva, the surviving photograph/print is actually a copy of the original, basically a print photograph of the original photograph. So the person(s) selling it could have been selling several copies of the photograph to different soldiers/tourists/chumps while keeping the original.

Isn't it strange then that no more copies "popped up"?

[RJNorton]

Many thanks to Steve for sending these articles on the purported Thomas Lincoln photo. The first one is from the Journal_Gazette (Mattoon Illinois) Thu June 21, 1928_pg. 2. The second one is from the St Joseph_News-Press_Gazette (MO)Sat May 12, 1928_pg. 16.

[RJNorton]

(07-17-2019 02:52 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Isn't it strange then that no more copies "popped up"?

Eva, IMO, the whole story seems strange. I am surprised at the number of books which carry the photo but do not tell the reader that quite a few folks doubt its legitimacy.

[LincolnMan]

(07-16-2019 04:36 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  In the July 1969 Lincoln Lore, R. Gerald McMurtry wrote an article about the alleged Thomas Lincoln photograph. His conclusion:

"With little data on hand to make a case for or against the so-called Thomas Lincoln photograph no conclusions ran be reached as to its authenticity. Limited knowledge of a thing usually provokes a negative reaction, and conservative students always take a safe position until documentary facts can prove the point in question; nevertheless it is believed that if the Thomas Lincoln photograph is not genuine that hoax was perpetrated in the 1860s. It is unfortunate that this photograph was not brought to light at an earlier period and that Lieutenant Flora was not interviewed carefully by some competent historian before his death on December 23, 1915. Some revealing statement coming directly from him might have cleared up the puzzling problem."

I will add that John Hall, a nearby neighbor of Thomas and Sarah Lincoln, stated that "he was sure that Thomas Lincoln never had a picture taken of himself."

Wow! Perhaps we will never know. I just don’t think so.

[mbgross]

(07-15-2019 01:38 PM)LincolnMan Wrote:  Is it just me? I don’t think Abraham looks like Thomas at all.

I agree. To me it is like Abraham and Robert.

[Steve]

I want to bring up something that isn't really addressed in Lynch's article. Flora's unit was briefly based in Cairo, Illinois from April - May 1864. That's still about 200 miles away from Charleston, Illinois. Is there any evidence that the 10th Ohio L. A. (or soldiers from the unit on detached duty) were moved any closer to Charleston?

I also want to point out that when Flora enlisted in the unit in February 1864, the unit was then based in Mississippi. So there's a good chance that after enlisting Flora was sent from Ohio by rail through Illinois and then sent down the Mississippi River to his unit near Vicksburg. So I guess he could've also encountered a Lincoln relative then.

[Steve]

Lynch's article mentioned one of the experts he consulted felt the photo of the man couldn't have been reversed (and thus not a daguerreotype but an ambrotype - which wasn't invented until 1854) making it impossible for the man in the photo to be Thomas Lincoln. I checked a big photo book of daguerreotypes that I have and most (but not all) of the photographs of men's vests and jackets are buttoned the opposite way of the man in the photo. I also went to Ebay and searched for daguerreotypes for sale. I searched the first 5 pages of results and almost all of the men's jackets and vests that were on those pages, that I could see clearly, were buttoned in the opposite direction of the man in the photograph.

So, it doesn't seem like a definitive clue in determining what type of photograph the copy was made from since, apparently, some tailors didn't follow a set style of men's buttoning. But it seems a lot more probable that the original photograph was an ambrotype not a daguerreotype.

[RJNorton]

According to Wikipedia the population of Charleston in 1850 was 849. To me, anyway, it would seem somewhat surprising if a daguerreotypist were actually located there.

[Steve]

(07-19-2019 03:56 AM)RJNorton Wrote:  According to Wikipedia the population of Charleston in 1850 was 849. To me, anyway, it would seem somewhat surprising if a daguerreotypist were actually located there.

Thomas could've had his photograph taken a little further away than Charleston. That his wife and neighbor were urging Thomas to have one taken the last couple of years of his life makes it sound like they knew of a daguerrotypist within a somewhat reasonable distance.

[Susan Higginbotham]

There were traveling daguerreotypists, too.