Soldier dies while trying to vote during Civil War

[Steve]

I probably should have posted this yesterday, but I thought this Civil War story on voting was interesting:

https://irishamericancivilwar.com/2018/1...-his-life/

[RJNorton]

That is a very interesting story, Steve. Thanks for posting. Often I would have discussions in my history class; I would read this article to the class and then ask, "Should Eugene's family have been granted the requested pension?" I think it would have led to an interesting discussion.

[David Lockmiller]

(11-07-2018 02:22 PM)RJNorton Wrote:  That is a very interesting story, Steve. Thanks for posting. Often I would have discussions in my history class; I would read this article to the class and then ask, "Should Eugene's family have been granted the requested pension?" I think it would have led to an interesting discussion.

What I thought was so interesting about this story is all that sympathetic strangers (especially H.R. Parrott) did for this soldier who was dying, as disclosed in the letter written by H.R. Parrott, Agent for the Adams Express Company.

Accidental death of wounded Union soldier going home to vote in November, 1864:

Immediately sent for Physicians. Dr. Bennett one of our best Surgeons was shortly to his side also Surgeon Burnett who is Medical Inspector of 23d Army Corp’s happened to be home on a short furlough. They made an examination and was soon satisfied that he could not live but a short time. He had hardly a perceptible pulse and but slight movement of the bead. Brandy was given him but he did not revive in the least. Doctors thought that he must have been injured internally as the loss of his leg would not have so reduced him. He lay perfectly quiet apparently unconscious until he died. I heard him say once plainly “I am dying take me home”.

By permission of the Doctors we removed him on a mattress to the “Sterling House” in this City, a House whose doors are always wide open to take in any soldier in distress (and it is the only one we have I am sorry to say) balance are “Copperheads”. They gave us a good room and a good bed free of expense on which we laid him; he however lived but about 3/4 of an hour. He died as easily as if going to sleep -- not a movement of a muscle could be discerned. He died surrounded by quite a number of warm-hearted friends and everything was done for him that possibly could be to resuscitate him. He died about 1/4 after 12 A.M. A brother soldier and a Gentleman here volunteered to lay him out and remain with him until morning, which they did.

I bought the coffin and made some little expense I intended to have sent bill to you to collect of the friends but since receiving your letter stating that they are so poor, I will endeavor to collect here if possible.

H.R. Parrott
Agt. Adams Express Co
Br. Port. Ct.

Have written in such haste that you may find some trouble in reading it want of time forces me to do so.

[JMadonna]

Good to know he continues to vote... in Broward county.

[David Lockmiller]

(11-14-2018 09:11 PM)JMadonna Wrote:  Good to know he continues to vote... in Broward county.

Why is there not a constitutional amendment offered giving equal weight to the vote of every citizen of the United States in the presidential election conducted every four years? "One citizen; one vote." If this had been done before the 2000 vote in Florida (and the rest of the country), there would have been no five-to-four vote of the "Republican" Supreme Court electing George Bush as President of the United States. And, Hillary Clinton would have won the presidential election in 2016, based on the majority of United States citizen votes cast throughout the United States.

And, what is the prediction regarding the presidential vote in 2020? Florida appears to be fairly evenly divided between Republican and Democratic voters as judged by the present still-undecided races for Governor and U. S. Senator in that state. Is the vote in Florida again going to decide who is to be President of the United States? If so, why don't we just have the presidential election conducted every four years in only the state of Florida? Or, maybe just Broward County voters should be able to vote for the President of the United States?

And, I just noticed that there is another story in today's New York Times titled "In Florida Recount, Sloppy Signatures May Disqualify Thousands of Votes." I don't think I that will bother reading that story. But just think of the implications regarding disenfranchisement (very likely) or possible instances of voter fraud (one man or woman could come into local voting precincts several times a day claiming to be somebody that they are not and voting early and often - very unlikely).

[Gene C]

We already have enough laws, rules and regulations about voting, and a constitutional amendment will not fix the shortcomings in the system, which works over 95% of the time. They just need to be followed.

At least that's what my voting expert friend, Chad tells me.

[L Verge]

BTW, Gene, I understand that your friend, Chad, was found hanging in Florida...!

As for voting improprieties, I agree that we need to enforce laws already on the books (and not just in the realm of voting), not "force" another one on the public. Minority Presidents (those who did not garner the majority of the popular vote) have come into office quite a few times throughout history -- take President Abraham Lincoln, for instance.

[AussieMick]

Auditors often see organisations which have many policies and procedures in place... but inadequate, or no, effective controls to ensure that those policies and procedures are followed.

Everyone can see that objectives are not being achieved, so what frequently happens is that more policies and procedures (let's call them red tape) are brought in ... but still without adequate controls, without people being held accountable, or management being honest about problems.

Happens in Australia too.

[David Lockmiller]

(11-15-2018 04:43 AM)David Lockmiller Wrote:  I repeat my question:

Why is there not a constitutional amendment offered giving equal weight to the vote of every citizen of the United States in presidential elections conducted once every four years on the basis of the principle of "One Citizen; One Vote" in this ongoing democracy?

Answer: The Office of President of the United States is the single office within our government that should be decided by every citizen of the United States upon a fair and equal vote.

[AussieMick]

David, when you write " The Office of President of the United States is the single office within our government that should be decided by every citizen of the United States" are you saying that every citizen should be compelled to vote?
If so, from a personal liberty point of view and freedom of the individual, I'd suggest that you'd have problems getting that agreed ... but you'd know the American people better than I do.

[RJNorton]

According to Wikipedia here are some arguments both pro and con regarding the Electoral College:

"The Electoral College system is subject to debate, with some defending it and others calling for its abolition. Supporters of the Electoral College argue that it is fundamental to American federalism, that it requires candidates to appeal to voters outside large cities, increases the political influence of small states, discourages the excessive growth of political parties and preserves the two-party system, and makes the electoral outcome appear more legitimate than that of a nationwide popular vote. Opponents of the Electoral College argue that it can result in a person becoming president even though an opponent got more votes (which has happened in two out of the last five presidential elections); that it causes candidates to focus their campaigning disproportionately in a few "swing states" while ignoring most areas of the country; and that its allocation of Electoral College votes gives citizens in less populated rural states as much as four times the voting power as those in more populous urban states. Polls since 1967 have shown that a majority of Americans favor the president and vice president being elected by the nationwide popular vote, instead of by the Electoral College."

To abolish the Electoral College through the means of an amendment would require a 2/3 vote in both House and Senate plus a 3/4 vote of all the states. IMO, that is not going to happen (despite the fact that the majority of Americans apparently favor ending the Electoral College system).

[David Lockmiller]

(11-16-2018 04:42 AM)AussieMick Wrote:  David, when you write " The Office of President of the United States is the single office within our government that should be decided by every citizen of the United States" are you saying that every citizen should be compelled to vote?

No, I am not saying that every citizen should be compelled to vote. That decision is a matter of personal choice which I support.

What I am saying is that the vote in Florida could decide the selection for President of the United States once again in 2020 as it did in 2000. And, this conclusion would be despite the fact that the total vote of all citizens of the United States who "freely" choose to vote for the President of the United States is readily available. One citizen and one vote that counts as much as any other citizen's vote is my idea of the correct voting principle in any democracy. In every state, the U. S. Senators and statewide offices (such as Governor) are decided in this manner. And, U. S. Representatives are decided in districts within the individual states with the same "most votes" principle.

The following is the latest news on the recounts in Florida:

After a tumultuous machine recount of Florida’s midterm elections concluded on Thursday, officials have ordered a recount by hand of the close Senate race between Rick Scott, the Republican governor, and the Democratic incumbent, Bill Nelson.

Mr. Scott has a 12,603-vote lead, a margin of 0.15 percentage point, and he has called for Mr. Nelson to concede.

Another Republican, Ron DeSantis, held onto a more substantial lead over Andrew Gillum in the race for governor, though votes were still being counted in that contest, too.

If you were a citizen of California, or any other state, would you want the election of the President of the United States to be decided in Florida in 2020, or possibly, by a nine justice vote of the United States Supreme Court once again?

[L Verge]

Are you then proposing that we do away with the Electoral College? And how did we turn the true story of a soldier trying to exercise his right to vote during the Civil War into another contentious "discussion" on modern politics?

[Steve]

David,
Having a national popular vote for President wouldn't stop the need for recounts. There would just be a huuuge nationwide recount if necessary.

In the 2000 election Gore's percentage of the national popular vote (.51%) would've been just above the threshold for an automatic recount according to current Florida rules. One of the most overlooked important issues in that election was the size of the House of Representatives hasn't increased with the population of the U.S. since the 1920's. If it had, Gore would've won the electoral vote regardless of the outcome in Florida.

---

(11-16-2018 07:38 PM)L Verge Wrote:  Are you then proposing that we do away with the Electoral College? And how did we turn the true story of a soldier trying to exercise his right to vote during the Civil War into another contentious "discussion" on modern politics?

I was wondering that myself. Poor Eugene Conelly, forgotten again in the pursuit of making present day political points.

[David Lockmiller]

(11-16-2018 07:43 PM)Steve Wrote:  David,
Poor Eugene Conelly, forgotten again in the pursuit of making present day political points.

Did you happen to read my post #3 above? If not, here it is again.

What I thought was so interesting about this story is all that sympathetic strangers (especially H.R. Parrott) did for this soldier who was dying, as disclosed in the letter written by H.R. Parrott, Agent for the Adams Express Company.

Accidental death of wounded Union soldier going home to vote in November, 1864:

Immediately sent for Physicians. Dr. Bennett one of our best Surgeons was shortly to his side also Surgeon Burnett who is Medical Inspector of 23d Army Corp’s happened to be home on a short furlough. They made an examination and was soon satisfied that he could not live but a short time. He had hardly a perceptible pulse and but slight movement of the bead. Brandy was given him but he did not revive in the least. Doctors thought that he must have been injured internally as the loss of his leg would not have so reduced him. He lay perfectly quiet apparently unconscious until he died. I heard him say once plainly “I am dying take me home”.

By permission of the Doctors we removed him on a mattress to the “Sterling House” in this City, a House whose doors are always wide open to take in any soldier in distress (and it is the only one we have I am sorry to say) balance are “Copperheads”. They gave us a good room and a good bed free of expense on which we laid him; he however lived but about 3/4 of an hour. He died as easily as if going to sleep -- not a movement of a muscle could be discerned. He died surrounded by quite a number of warm-hearted friends and everything was done for him that possibly could be to resuscitate him. He died about 1/4 after 12 A.M. A brother soldier and a Gentleman here volunteered to lay him out and remain with him until morning, which they did.

I bought the coffin and made some little expense I intended to have sent bill to you to collect of the friends but since receiving your letter stating that they are so poor, I will endeavor to collect here if possible.

H.R. Parrott
Agt. Adams Express Co
Br. Port. Ct.

---

(11-16-2018 07:38 PM)L Verge Wrote:  And how did we turn the true story of a soldier trying to exercise his right to vote during the Civil War into another contentious "discussion" on modern politics?

You can blame JMadonna for that > "Good to know he continues to vote... in Broward county."

---

(11-16-2018 07:43 PM)Steve Wrote:  David,

In the 2000 election Gore's percentage of the national popular vote (.51%) would've been just above the threshold for an automatic recount according to current Florida rules.

"With the end of the recount, Bush won Florida by a margin of .009%, or 537 votes."

You will find this statement at the beginning of the same paragraph that you quoted from Wikipedia:

Ultimately, Bush won 271 electoral votes, one more than was necessary for the majority, despite Gore receiving 543,895 more votes (0.51% of all votes cast).

Popular vote: Bush 50,456,002 and Gore 50,999,897

Bush won Florida by 537 votes and Gore lost the Presidency of United States, despite receiving 543,895 more votes nationwide.