Please Don't Shoot the Messenger

[L Verge]

I mean exactly what the title of this thread means because I am only sharing something that I found online while searching for some information concerning Woodrow Wilson and his risque love life! What I stumbled across was a Facebook page from someone I have never heard of, but he is no fan of Abraham Lincoln.

The man's name is Chuck Baldwin, and his short bio says that he is a radio broadcaster, columnist, and pastor. This particular posting from him gives a lengthy diatribe on the ten worst Presidents of the U.S. (in his opinion). Mr. Lincoln ranks first, and I decided to post his opinion here - not because I agree with all of his points, but because it should enliven this forum a bit during the dog days of summer.

"Without an ounce of doubt in my mind, Abraham Lincoln is America's absolute worst President. He did not free a single slave; but what he did do was begin the process of enslaving free men. It is no hyperbole to say that Lincoln truly governed as a dictator, not as a President.

"Virtually every single problem we are having today (and have had ever since Lincoln's presidency) with an overbearing, encroaching, authoritarian federal government in Washington, D.C., came as a direct result of Abraham Lincoln's presidency. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

"Abraham Lincoln destroyed the Washington/Jeffersonian model of American government and replaced it with an imperial White House. His own statements prove that he cared absolutely nothing for the black race and was indeed himself a racist – unlike many leaders of the Confederacy, such as Robert E. Lee, T.J. "Stonewall" Jackson, et al., who publicly and adamantly spoke in support of ending slavery and NEVER said anything remotely derogatory or racist against the black people.

"Beyond that, in his first inaugural address Lincoln actually SUPPORTED an amendment to the U.S. Constitution (which would have been the 13th Amendment) proposed by Ohio Congressman Thomas Corwin that said, "No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State." In other words, the amendment would have forever guaranteed the right of people to own slaves.

"Lincoln violated every constitutional restraint on the office of the President possible. He used the Union army to invade independent sovereign states, and he invaded the State legislature in Maryland, kidnapping and incarcerating the legislators to prevent them from voting on secession. He used force to bully and intimidate other State legislatures in the North to keep them from supporting southern independence. He authorized Union forces to hunt down and imprison "Copperheads" (individuals in the North who supported southern independence).

"While Lincoln drafted black men from the North to serve in the Union army in segregated units, southern blacks were fighting voluntarily side-by-side with the white men – in the same units as the white men. And what most history books fail to mention is that there were reportedly over 300,000 slave owners fighting in Lincoln's Union army during the Civil War. (Mildred Lewis Rutherford, "Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederate States, and Abraham Lincoln, the President of the United States," 1861-1865, p. 35)

"Lincoln's so-called Emancipation Proclamation was an attempt to give the North moral justification for continuing his unconstitutional and immoral war of aggression against the South (and which the North was miserably losing after two years into the war) by issuing an edict to a nation that had already seceded (the Confederacy) and in which he had NO AUTHORITY, while leaving the institution of slavery completely intact among the states in which he did have authority (the Union). Lincoln was also hoping that his proclamation would incite southern blacks to insurrect against the southern states. However, this goal was never remotely accomplished.

"England's William Wilberforce had already shown how slavery could be peacefully ended. The institution of slavery was already dying in the United States. There was absolutely NO REASON why over 600,000 Americans had to die in Lincoln's War of Aggression. Abraham Lincoln cared nothing about freeing slaves; what he cared about was enslaving free and independent states to an all-powerful, dictatorial federal government.

"There really wasn't a "bad" President before Lincoln. But with Lincoln as a model and with the constitutional restraints against an imperial presidency left torn in shreds, we haven't had an abundance of "good" presidents since him. In fact, without Abraham Lincoln the nine "worst" presidents below would probably have never been President."

If it makes you feel better, Mr. Baldwin doesn't take sides; he castrates Republican and Democratic Presidents. His other nine victims are Grant, Wilson (#2), FDR, LBJ, both Bushes, Nixon, Clinton, and Obama (not necessarily in that order.)

Remember, do not aim any of your salvos at me. I am only posting what is out there already for the world to see. Now, I'm going back to picking on Wilson.

[Gene C]

Wow! What a wonderful attitude to have.
Got to blame the countries ills on something/someone
(I blame it on the boogie)
Which reminds me of a song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV3DGdbtWeQ

[L Verge]

I did find that Mr. Baldwin is what his bio says -- and that he also ran for the Presidency in 2004 under the Constitutional Party. His running mate was a man from Maryland that I have never heard of.

[AussieMick]

I think that its probable the history books will have more to say about Abraham Lincoln than Charles Obadiah Baldwin.

I must though congratulate him (born 1952). His Wikipedia photograph initially reminded me of the Oscar Wilde story 'The Portrait of Dorian Gray'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Baldwin

But that's where the portrait 'ages' whilst Dorian remains forever young. So I guess its more 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' (by F Scott Fitzgerald) where the man was born 'old' and gets younger as the years go by. Thus our Mr Baldwin is now approaching childhood where he believes himself to be the centre of attention and that he knows everything.

[Eva Elisabeth]

Loved that story (B. Button) - wasn't there a movie with Brad Pitt?
I wonder who ranks top (positive) with Mr. Baldwin. (Johnson?) And I wonder if (but doubt) he would have done better than his "victims".

[LincolnMan]

His points are known—I’ve read them by others before. As I’ve said before- everyone must study, weigh the evidence, and form an opinion on things. It doesn’t mean our opinions are correct. It doesn’t mean we won’t change our thinking on something at some point. Most matters are very complex. No one is monochromatic. Lincoln did great things. Perhaps he made some really bad decisions too—we all do. It behooves us as students of history to be familiar with all the facets of a thing-whether it be an event, a battle, a cause, a person. And Lincoln too.

[L Verge]

(08-05-2018 10:45 AM)LincolnMan Wrote:  His points are known—I’ve read them by others before. As I’ve said before- everyone must study, weigh the evidence, and form an opinion on things. It doesn’t mean our opinions are correct. It doesn’t mean we won’t change our thinking on something at some point. Most matters are very complex. No one is monochromatic. Lincoln did great things. Perhaps he made some really bad decisions too—we all do. It behooves us as students of history to be familiar with all the facets of a thing-whether it be an event, a battle, a cause, a person. And Lincoln too.

Very well said, Bill, thank you so much. For many a year now, I have been preaching to people to consider both sides of historical issues (especially).

My voice has grown even louder over the past few years because of the current "discussions" over CW statues and memorials. No matter when and by whom such things as these - as well as such opinions as Mr. Baldwin's - were erected, written about, etc., it is our responsibility to learn about them and how they affected American culture. We can't do that if we "cleanse" our U.S. history.

Pardon me for once again inserting a personal story, but I taught 8th and 9th graders during the Cold War. In certain areas of U.S. history (such as Manifest Destiny), I would ask the students to judge whether our country acted correctly or made bad mistakes. One day, a student asked me if I was a Communist since I was teaching them that America was not always perfect...

[LincolnMan]

“Pardon me for once again inserting a personal story, but I taught 8th and 9th graders during the Cold War. In certain areas of U.S. history (such as Manifest Destiny), I would ask the students to judge whether our country acted correctly or made bad mistakes. One day, a student asked me if I was a Communist since I was teaching them that America was not always perfect...” L. Verge.

Great story Laurie. I don’t think we’ve come any farther...sadly.