Extra Credit Questions

[Eva Elisabeth]

I agree - as much as I admire Lincoln in other fields and features, in parenting, I think not all of his acting right as it didn't do others good as well as it didn't do Tad (and I believe there's enough evidence to assume this was the indeed case). Period. I don't understand why it is a taboo to say this. It doesn't harm Abraham Lincoln's other achievements and legacy.

[GustD45]

I agree - as much as I admire Lincoln in other fields and features, in parenting, I think not all of his acting right as it didn't do others good as well as it didn't do Tad (and I believe there's enough evidence to assume this was the indeed case). Period. I don't understand why it is a taboo to say this. It doesn't harm Abraham Lincoln's other achievements and legacy.

Exactly my point Eva. Thank you!

[David Lockmiller]

I regret to inform the readers of the recent portion of this thread on Tad Lincoln and his father’s parental lessons that two of the stories that I have posted and attributed to Thomas Pendel in his book Thirty-Six Years in the White House are not true and not valid. Gene sent me a private message and informed me that Lincoln, Stanton, and Tad water hose incident was not in this work. He checked Internet Archives. I regret the mistakes and I apologize.

The two stories that I typed out from Emanuel Hertz’s book Lincoln Talks and attributed to Thomas Pendel are not valid. Pendel writes in his Preface to the book: “I have endeavored in my Recollections to relate only such events as appear to be worthy of preservation.” Since the two Pendel stories that I have posted on the “Stanton” and the “secret knocking code” incidents are not actually in this book, it is highly unlikely that either story is true.

However, I still believe in President Lincoln’s parenting philosophy as stated in the book Giant in the Shadows: The Life of Robert T. Lincoln by Jason Emerson at page 9: “It is my pleasure that my children are free, happy and unrestrained by parental tyranny. Love is the chain whereby to lock [or bind] a child to his parents.” And, to answer an oft-repeated question on this thread: I do not have any children.

[Rob Wick]

The two stories that I typed out from Emanuel Hertz’s book Lincoln Talks and attributed to Thomas Pendel are not valid.

Just another example of how following Hertz can be a path to danger. If Hertz said it rained, you can rest assured that it was sunny.

Best
Rob

[Eva Elisabeth]

David, thank you for the info and honest reply. Please allow me to clarify one thing - I totally agree on the statement (philosophy) you quoted in this last post. Both, tyranny and the opposite (no limits) aren't good approaches (also not for dealing with people in general), and love is fundamental. Children seek, challenge and need to experience limits to mature and cope with them in adult life. Experience limits doesn't mean drill or beating, it means to experience that actions that aren't favorable for valid reasons have likewise consequences. This can be such as "losing" something favorable, like no horse riding or exciting trips for awhile, at best something that can be reasoned to the very issue. Then you can also positively enhance and reward good behavior (Lincoln tried this however, I think, with little success, as at least one "story" goes, I guess he as often enhanced the opposite.) Consequence is a key word in education, but it doesn't need to be tyrant - it shouldn't. And love also means to help your kid getting fit for adult life's requirements.

[L Verge]

Excellent summation, Eva, with many of the elements that are drilled into prospective teachers in college. I also noted something that might explain some of Tad's erratic behavior: In Burlingame's Inner World (and we know that he had a very low opinion of Mary Lincoln), if his sources are correct in describing her almost violent attempts at discipline compared to her husband's complete lack of disciplinary skills, that situation might have contributed to some of Tad's problems.

Parents - under normal situations - should share almost identical methods in disciplining their children. Tad's little head must have been spinning at times, and of course he would gravitate to his very lenient father - who was likely using Tad somewhat as a surrogate for the adored Willie. The used teacher in me thinks this would be a perfect topic for a thesis from an education major.

[Eva Elisabeth]

(Thanks, Laurie!) Agreed. I also think Tad might have been an ADHS "candidate", needing more guidance (and consequence) than his brothers. [/b]

[David Lockmiller]

The used teacher in me thinks this would be a perfect topic for a thesis from an education major.

Laurie, I just created a new thread under News and Announcements titled "'Potholes' in the President Abraham Lincoln History Roadway". I thought that others might make contributions to this thread with other published invalid Lincoln stories. As the list expands, someone may one day be able to write a doctoral thesis on the topic of published false Abraham Lincoln stories with a theory or theories to explain why people have created such false narratives. "Lincoln, Stanton, and Tad water hose" story would be one good example. And, it would also be a means to separate the "chaff from the wheat" in one location.

One bothersome false narrative that I have heard a number times is that President Lincoln himself was a racist because he advocated the possibility of returning former slaves to their native land at the end of the Civil War. These same people who believe that Lincoln was therefore a racist are unaware that many of the Northern states at the time had black exclusionary laws.

[LincolnMan]

If current educational trends continue, there will likely be many more historical figures that no one (child or adult) will know about...

So true Laurie. I have a 20 year-old in therapy that did not know about Sept. 11, 2001 (9 11)-until I told her about it. This is both sad and shocking. Also, she had no especial patriotism or love for America. Clueless.

[RJNorton]

I am curious if anyone can answer without googling, looking in a book, etc.

In his late teens Abraham Lincoln was summoned to court and charged with a wrongdoing. But he was found innocent. What was he charged with doing, and why did the judge find him innocent?

[AussieMick]

I was thinking that he had been summoned as a result of failure to pay a debt (not unusual, I think, in those ... everyone seemed to be demanding repayment of loans etc) ... but 'Late teens' ? I'm not sure of his age when surveying , but surely it was in his 20s.
Anyway, I'll say it was a debt for surveying equipment/tools and someone came in and paid it for him (this is when I need to access a book).

[RJNorton]

That is really an excellent guess, Michael, but this court case happened before Lincoln's surveying days. It did not have to do with a debt.

[Gene C]

He was giving boat rides on his small boat to the steamboat in the middle of the river.
He was accused of operating a ferry across the Ohio River without a license.
He defended himself by saying he only took passengers halfway to the other shore, the middle of the river to catch a ride on the steamboat. He did not need a license to do that.
He did not carry passengers from one side of the river to the other side.
The judge agreed with him.

[RJNorton]

You nailed it, Gene. The Dill brothers, who had exclusive ferry rights on that part of the Ohio River, took Lincoln to court. They argued that Lincoln and his small boat were in violation of their exclusive rights. Judge Samuel Pate ruled that Lincoln was not taking his passengers across the river; he was only taking them partway to the steamers traveling on the river, and therefore had not violated the law. Lincoln had never ferried any passengers totally across the river. This was in c. 1827.

And it seems that Judge Pate was impressed with Lincoln's mind in court, and the two became friendly after the case was over. Lincoln also may have had a crush on Pate's niece, Caroline Meeker.

[RJNorton]

Without looking...how many months passed between when Lincoln was elected to the 30th Congress and when the 30th Congress convened?