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Mac_Guffey · 06-27-2017, 02:03 PM

In 1848, Lincoln had the perfect answer to this question, & his words should perhaps serve as the last on this subject:

"How like the half insane mumbling of a fever-dream..."

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wcvet6 · (This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 04:55 PM by wcvet6.)

(06-27-2017 02:03 PM)Mac_Guffey Wrote: In 1848, Lincoln had the perfect answer to this question, & his words should perhaps serve as the last on this subject:

"How like the half insane mumbling of a fever-dream..."

.

abe Lincoln quote reply
be sure to put your feet in the right place, and then stand firm Big Grin

towering genius desdains a beaten path.it seeks regions hitherto
unexplored .
abe lincoln

L Verge · (This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 06:26 PM by L Verge.)

"JOHN NICOLAY declined to use it in his 10 volume Lincoln a life.hmmm"

Just a point of clarification for budding historians who might read this: John Nicolay didn't choose to include the NYC photo of Lincoln in his coffin because Nicolay died in 1901, and the photo was not discovered by Dr. Rietveld until the early-1950s...

Also, mention has been made a number of times about the gentleman in this controversial photo having his eyes sewn shut. I have enlarged the photo several times, and this man's eyes are wide open, albeit somewhat sunken from age. Likewise, his hand is jut barely touching the back of the chair, and there is no indication that it is "nailed" to the chair.

I doubt that any embalmer of that day would so desecrate the dead body of Mr. Lincoln; and as I reiterated in a previous post, Lincoln's body did not leave the White House until after the formal viewing there. What photographer in his right mind, what embalmer for that matter, and what White House staff member or Lincoln adviser would have the courage to play such games with the body of the President? Mrs. Lincoln, Edwin Stanton, Nicolay and Hay, and numerous others would have had anyone involved tarred and feathered!

Just found this while searching for something else related to the autopsy: http://www.shapell.org/manuscript/Eyewit...Liebermann

Some of you may be familiar with this account as well as the Shapell Manuscript Collection. I had never heard of either until five minutes ago. There are a variety of clips about other related Lincoln items in the collection.

PS: I also saw one account where Dr. Brown, the embalmer, was present at the autopsy so that he could immediately begin his procedures once the doctors were finished.

wcvet6 · 06-27-2017, 09:36 PM

stantons son sent the photo to john nicolay after his father died and suggested he use it in his book then went on to discuss other matters so he was very aware and in receipt of said photo before he finished his 10 volume Lincoln a life ,source ron rietvelds account of the nicolay/hays file he was lead to by dr pratt to and finding the envelope dated approx. 1888 marked x-14.containing a letter from stantons son to nicolay and the photo.
so I reiterate john nicolay CHOSE not to include the photo.so after nicolays death his daughter donated the photo to IL historical museum the head of said instatution .dr pratt.
BTW his mouth was sewn shut in a slight smile, his eyes show death ie sunken in .
Lincoln belongs to we the people and our decendants . HISTORIANS do not own abe Lincoln .

wcvet6 · 06-27-2017, 11:03 PM

Biographies, as generally written, are not only misleading but false... In most instances, they commemorate a lie and cheat posterity out of the truth. Abraham Lincoln
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote...29570.html

L Verge · 06-28-2017, 09:08 AM

(06-27-2017 09:36 PM)wcvet6 Wrote: stantons son sent the photo to john nicolay after his father died and suggested he use it in his book then went on to discuss other matters so he was very aware and in receipt of said photo before he finished his 10 volume Lincoln a life ,source ron rietvelds account of the nicolay/hays file he was lead to by dr pratt to and finding the envelope dated approx. 1888 marked x-14.containing a letter from stantons son to nicolay and the photo.
so I reiterate john nicolay CHOSE not to include the photo.so after nicolays death his daughter donated the photo to IL historical museum the head of said instatution .dr pratt.
BTW his mouth was sewn shut in a slight smile, his eyes show death ie sunken in .
Lincoln belongs to we the people and our decendants . HISTORIANS do not own abe Lincoln .

I have never heard that story about Stanton's son sending the photo to Nicolay. Can you give the citation for that? Interesting information, if true...

In this day and age, HISTORIANS are the ones that are needed to keep the story of Lincoln alive. It is just so important that the story they tell be backed up with verifiable facts.

Gene C · 06-28-2017, 11:28 AM

The photo and story about Stanton's son is in "20 Days", (page 162) and the photo was included in the Nicolay papers donated to the IL State Historical Library.
https://www.amazon.com/Twenty-days-Assas...36AQ6VZ228

Also the next page in the book includes four (4) 'Spurious photographs of Lincoln in death. They are all in a reclining position.

wcvet6 · (This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 11:50 AM by wcvet6.)

also in ron rievelds account of his magnificent find.

so the glaring question remains why didn't john nicolay choose not to include the death photo in his book?

Gene C · 06-28-2017, 11:59 AM

(06-28-2017 11:46 AM)wcvet6 Wrote: so the glaring question remains why didn't john nicolay choose not to include the death photo in his book?

Nicolay was Lincoln's personal secretary all through the Civil War.
He didn't use the photo out of respect for Mr. Lincoln and his family.

L Verge · 06-28-2017, 12:05 PM

(06-28-2017 11:46 AM)wcvet6 Wrote: also in ron rievelds account of his magnificent find.

so the glaring question remains why didn't john nicolay choose not to include the death photo in his book?

Thanks, Gene and Marsha, for giving me a good history lesson today. As many times as I have looked through Twenty Days, I must admit that (if I read it at all), that info on page 162 never sunk in.

wcvet6 · 06-28-2017, 02:07 PM

(06-28-2017 11:59 AM)Gene C Wrote:
(06-28-2017 11:46 AM)wcvet6 Wrote: so the glaring question remains why didn't john nicolay choose not to include the death photo in his book?

Nicolay was Lincoln's personal secretary all through the Civil War.
He didn't use the photo out of respect for Mr. Lincoln and his family.

nice unsupported personal conclusion but how do you know that sir?

it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool , than to speak and remove all doubt
abe lincoln

Gene C · 06-28-2017, 02:41 PM

I guess I had better remain silent in regards to your question and let some one else risk answering it.

L Verge · 06-28-2017, 02:51 PM

(06-28-2017 02:41 PM)Gene C Wrote: I guess I had better remain silent in regards to your question and let some one else risk answering it.

In this case, Gene, I think that is a wise decision...

Rogerm · 06-28-2017, 03:57 PM

That quote about about remaining silent and appearing to be a fool, rather than speaking and removing all doubt is actually attributable to Mark Twain.

wcvet6 · (This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 06:24 PM by wcvet6.)

(06-28-2017 02:41 PM)Gene C Wrote: I guess I had better remain silent in regards to your question and let some one else risk answering it.

what exactly would be disrespectful , if nicolay decided to use the gurney photo in his very thoughtful 10 volume book set Lincoln a life 1890 biography of abe Lincoln ?

(06-28-2017 02:41 PM)Gene C Wrote: I guess I had better remain silent in regards to your question and let some one else risk answering it.

offended are you ? well now that's reason enough to evade the question or cite sorces is it ?