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SSlater · 05-25-2017, 11:13 PM

I'm getting ready to ask Kentucky for some information on the "Honorarium", and I want "perfect" "names", "Dates" and "times" , to work with.
Consider - Sarah was divorced in Dec. 1866. The "Honorarium" was in the summer of 1867. Then she married Jacob Long in the fall of 1867. Do you think she would have left New York City, and her Mother, and Long - for a 15 minute handshake"
Right now I'm saying NO!
Kentucky has already said that there is no Record, since it was held during a recession of the Legislature. (How do they know what I am asking about if there is no record??????)
I have read elsewhere that there were introductions, handshakes, etc. by the politicians. There is a record somewhere. (Newspaper?

RJNorton · 05-26-2017, 04:18 AM

Does Headley use the term "honorarium?" To me the word honorarium involves a payment for service. Why would the state of Kentucky want to pay Sarah Slater (who was not from Kentucky) for her service as a courier? Maybe I am missing something.

Wild Bill · 05-26-2017, 06:47 AM

All this reminds me of the old saying--Kentucky did not secede until 1865

SSlater · (This post was last modified: 05-26-2017 01:15 PM by SSlater.)

(05-26-2017 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Does Headley use the term "honorarium?" To me the word honorarium involves a payment for service. Why would the state of Kentucky want to pay Sarah Slater (who was not from Kentucky) for her service as a courier? Maybe I am missing something.

In this case - it was "payment for service", but it wasn't money. It was a respectful "pat on the back"

It is said that she provided a little T.L.C. to the prisoners in the form of Restaurant prepared food, mailing letters, delivering letters, etc. in addition to traveling from Montreal, to Richmond, at her own cost, to secure the documentation that showed that they were "preforming a Military Assignment, rather than a self-serving rampage."
(I do not support that explanation, since in most cases, the Raiders kept the money, stolen from the Banks, for their personal use. Raider Higbee moved to Texas and established a Bank. He was President of said bank -and lived happily thereafter - but not in Kentucky.

(05-26-2017 12:51 PM)SSlater Wrote:
(05-26-2017 04:18 AM)RJNorton Wrote: Does Headley use the term "honorarium?" To me the word honorarium involves a payment for service. Why would the state of Kentucky want to pay Sarah Slater (who was not from Kentucky) for her service as a courier? Maybe I am missing something.
In this case - it was "payment for service", but it wasn't money. It was a respectful "pat on the back"

It is said that she provided a little T.L.C. to the prisoners in the form of Restaurant prepared food, mailing letters, delivering letters, etc. in addition to traveling from Montreal, to Richmond, at her own cost, to secure the documentation that showed that they were "preforming a Military Assignment, rather than a self-serving rampage."
(I do not support that explanation, since in most cases, the Raiders kept the money, stolen from the Banks, for their personal use. Raider Higbee moved to Texas and established a Bank. He was President of said bank -and lived happily thereafter - but not in Kentucky.

I neglected to explain - that all the Raiders, that she "nursed" were from Kentucky. I don't know if they were aware -that she was not from Kentucky - or was the Title "Kentucky Widow" equal to the Title "Kentucky Colonel"? Add to that - she dressed as a widow every day.

(05-26-2017 06:47 AM)Wild Bill Wrote: All this reminds me of the old saying--Kentucky did not secede until 1865

Wild Bill. You have modified that statement, a wee bit. The way it was first used -Kentucky did not secede until after the war.

Seriously, Kentucky was predominately UNION.

The Raiders did not return to a friendly welcome. They did not want their names known. Some were not identified until Headley published his book in 1905.

As more and more veterans returned, they were elected to Public Office, so the mood was changing and their story was finally offered.

Gene C · (This post was last modified: 05-26-2017 04:26 PM by Gene C.)

(05-26-2017 12:51 PM)SSlater Wrote: It It is said that she provided a little T.L.C. to the prisoners in the form of Restaurant prepared food, mailing letters, delivering letters, etc. in addition to traveling from Montreal, to Richmond, at her own cost, to secure the documentation that showed that they were "preforming a Military Assignment, rather than a self-serving rampage."
(I do not support that explanation, since in most cases, the Raiders kept the money, stolen from the Banks, for their personal use. Raider Higbee moved to Texas and established a Bank. He was President of said bank -and lived happily thereafter - but not in Kentucky.

This is all interesting, and every time you come up with something new, I come up with new questions.
I wonder how she was able to afford all that travel at her own expense? I think we are missing something here.
What is her motive for doing this? It's got to be more than just patriotism.
What's the connection with these specific men?
What's the connection to Surratt?
Did Sarah all of a sudden decide she wants to be a secret courier and show up for duty?
What was she doing in Montreal before she goes to Richmond (visiting friends or family?)
I think I remember someone stating this was her first courier job?
What a mystery!

And let me throw in a song about Kentucky women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtqXc1vY93U

L Verge · 05-26-2017, 07:35 PM

(05-26-2017 02:48 PM)Gene C Wrote:
(05-26-2017 12:51 PM)SSlater Wrote: It It is said that she provided a little T.L.C. to the prisoners in the form of Restaurant prepared food, mailing letters, delivering letters, etc. in addition to traveling from Montreal, to Richmond, at her own cost, to secure the documentation that showed that they were "preforming a Military Assignment, rather than a self-serving rampage."
(I do not support that explanation, since in most cases, the Raiders kept the money, stolen from the Banks, for their personal use. Raider Higbee moved to Texas and established a Bank. He was President of said bank -and lived happily thereafter - but not in Kentucky.

This is all interesting, and every time you come up with something new, I come up with new questions.
I wonder how she was able to afford all that travel at her own expense? I think we are missing something here.
What is her motive for doing this? It's got to be more than just patriotism.
What's the connection with these specific men?
What's the connection to Surratt?
Did Sarah all of a sudden decide she wants to be a secret courier and show up for duty?
What was she doing in Montreal before she goes to Richmond (visiting friends or family?)
I think I remember someone stating this was her first courier job?
What a mystery!

And let me throw in a song about Kentucky women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtqXc1vY93U

I am getting just as confused as you. Personally, I think we are mixing information about two separate women and trying to fuse it into just one.

The more I look at what has been posted, the more convinced I am that the young Confederate widow from Kentucky is Mrs. Higbee. She had time to do all those good deeds for the poor prisoners since she evidently had an extended stay while nursing her husband. I do not see any connection between her and the Richmond high command.

On the other hand, Sarah was recruited by Seddon - I think while attempting to get a pass to go North to family. What better candidate for a bribe (assuming she wasn't dying for a courier job). Her first mission was an important one, sending her directly from Richmond to Montreal with one specific purpose -- get those commission papers to the authorities to save the lives of the Raiders. I doubt that she was given any opportunity to stay around and converse with other prisoners or even the Raiders. Get in and get out -- and if you like the courier job, we have other assignments for you. John Surratt will help you get back and forth. I don't think that Sarah had been in Montreal previous to her Raider mission.

I just purchased (at a very good price) a pristine copy of Headley's reproduced book. The prices offered from various sources tell me that this has never been a best-seller... I hope to find time to read the lines and between the lines for any further clues. Has anyone else read this book besides John?

P.S. - Roger, I agree with you that "honorarium" is a poor choice of words. Pats on the back are "non-monetary awards" in my dictionary.

SSlater · 06-05-2017, 03:26 PM

Laurie. I question ANY association between Mrs. Higbee and the jailed Raiders. Her husband WAS NOT IN JAIL WITH THE REST. He was off somewhere with the St Jean Baptiste Society. To protect him from association with the Raiders, she would have nothing to do with the ones in Jail. He and Young had a very Secret Agreement, that I think concerned lots of money. (We know he arrived back in Kentucky with enough money to open a Bank.)
If you are relying on "The Saga of Sarah Slater" where Hall said "When she left Salisbury is uncertain. # but in the middle off Jan. 1865 she...." Where I put the "#", is a three month gap. Which we now know - she was in Canada.

L Verge · 06-05-2017, 06:41 PM

(06-05-2017 03:26 PM)SSlater Wrote: Laurie. I question ANY association between Mrs. Higbee and the jailed Raiders. Her husband WAS NOT IN JAIL WITH THE REST. He was off somewhere with the St Jean Baptiste Society. To protect him from association with the Raiders, she would have nothing to do with the ones in Jail. He and Young had a very Secret Agreement, that I think concerned lots of money. (We know he arrived back in Kentucky with enough money to open a Bank.)
If you are relying on "The Saga of Sarah Slater" where Hall said "When she left Salisbury is uncertain. # but in the middle off Jan. 1865 she...." Where I put the "#", is a three month gap. Which we now know - she was in Canada.

How do you know that she remained in Canada that entire time? If the Canadians had sent her down to Richmond to get the commission papers for the Raiders, why did they also send the spurious Rev. Cameron after she had already left?

Would you consider any possibility that she was at St. Lawrence Hall in December, but then returned to Richmond - from which she was sent in January bearing the papers needed in Canada? Is there any possibility in your mind that there were documents that needed to be sent from Canada to Richmond in the interim before the trial of the Raiders (and papers not necessarily even related to the raid)?

Frankly, John, I was confused enough to begin with without your "outside the box" theory being thrown in...

Gene C · 06-05-2017, 07:32 PM

(05-26-2017 07:35 PM)L Verge Wrote: I just purchased (at a very good price) a pristine copy of Headley's reproduced book. The prices offered from various sources tell me that this has never been a best-seller... I hope to find time to read the lines and between the lines for any further clues. Has anyone else read this book besides John?

I've read it, Headley likes to stretch the truth, especially when talking about himself.

SSlater · 06-05-2017, 11:15 PM

(06-05-2017 06:41 PM)L Verge Wrote:
(06-05-2017 03:26 PM)SSlater Wrote: Laurie. I question ANY association between Mrs. Higbee and the jailed Raiders. Her husband WAS NOT IN JAIL WITH THE REST. He was off somewhere with the St Jean Baptiste Society. To protect him from association with the Raiders, she would have nothing to do with the ones in Jail. He and Young had a very Secret Agreement, that I think concerned lots of money. (We know he arrived back in Kentucky with enough money to open a Bank.)
If you are relying on "The Saga of Sarah Slater" where Hall said "When she left Salisbury is uncertain. # but in the middle off Jan. 1865 she...." Where I put the "#", is a three month gap. Which we now know - she was in Canada.

How do you know that she remained in Canada that entire time? If the Canadians had sent her down to Richmond to get the commission papers for the Raiders, why did they also send the spurious Rev. Cameron after she had already left?

Would you consider any possibility that she was at St. Lawrence Hall in December, but then returned to Richmond - from which she was sent in January bearing the papers needed in Canada? Is there any possibility in your mind that there were documents that needed to be sent from Canada to Richmond in the interim before the trial of the Raiders (and papers not necessarily even related to the raid)?

Frankly, John, I was confused enough to begin with without your "outside the box" theory being thrown in...

Laurie. I will be honest with you- I don't know if Sarah ever lived. I only know what some one wrote 150 years ago. From all that I read I try to recreate the story of her life. Sometimes I read something new on one day and the same event is told differently in the next story. So, I have to correct my ideas. This St. Albans thing is a mess. Now we are beginning to question the whether or not Sarah was even there at all. Bennett Young's Secret Deal with the Unidentified woman and a fist full of cash, is significant - but HOW? It suggests that this Hero of the South was not so Heroic as we have been lead to believe. Mix in the other story - about Higbee's action with the Morgan Raid -suggests that Higbee made a deal with Young to get some money home safely. Also, it more than suggests that Higbee never had any intention of giving up whatever he stole. What we read is not Sacred, like the Bible. So, if we suspect some "doctoring" of the events, we have a responsibility to question whatever we were told. Our debate about 'when' Sarah "went to Canada is an example." I read the "facts" one way, and you saw them differently - we need to resolve this , because it is important, if we ever hope to figure out How things went down. Now, having said that -DON'T CHANGE! Question anybody and everything, as you see fit. Until you are comfortable with the answer.