Lincoln Research

[L Verge]

"I think that this is an excellent point that Eva Elisabeth makes with her "elephant" cartoon. One must consider the "whole" animal to make the requisite sense of it. I think that Abraham Lincoln is much more complex than any other elephant, figuratively speaking."

I agree with you completely on that point, David. And I think that is the point that Dani was making in the small portion of her thoughts that we saw. People need to realize that Lincoln (the man and the President) has many complex angles to his personality and his politics. The romanticized version of him that has been passed down for generations does not tell the real story.

Thank you also for this quote: "In the first place, I insist that our fathers did not make this nation half slave and half free, or part slave and part free. I insist that they found the institution of slavery existing here. They did not make it so, but they left it so because they knew of no way to get rid of it at that time." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Lincoln-Douglas Debate at Quincy" (October 13, 1858), p. 276.

If this doesn't define our nation's history, as well as Lincoln's, up to our bloody civil war nothing does. Did Lincoln solve the problem of the institution of slavery, or was he in a quandary - making feeble attempts and political speeches -- just like a century of Americans before him?

[Eva Elisabeth]

(04-21-2017 09:30 AM)L Verge Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 03:03 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Laurie, I have never meant to attack anyone in person (feedback on the products was asked for) and basically agree on positive enforcement and the importance and necessity to teach from various angles. Yet IMO an advanced university student should be aware of the importance to provide sources/evidence, the more the less room for dialogue, and the responsibility you take over when spreading the truth under the academic seal. I frankly was disappointed of the lack thereof. Mass media is a tool of great benefits, but also great destructive potential, hence my request for responsibility.
So far and without, the "various angles" respectively what the reader gets IMO isn't "the truth" but one "blind man's description" of it (of an elephant).

I think what we all are missing here is that we are only seeing what Dani posted on social media sites -- not her more scholastic essay which was turned into her college professor. That is where I suspect you will find numerous citations.

To post them on quick-and-easy social media would turn off the masses. If the intellectuals among the masses want to pick up on her thoughts and then do research on their own, she has done her job well.

I personally doubt this way of presentation things attracts intellectuals in the search of enlightenment. Maybe I am too old-school to imagine. As for the others - how can they know this site is trustworthy and others that look the same and promise another truth aren't? And would they search for more or stick with the one truth they happened to came across? (My understanding of "newly created genre" was the intention to be the wheat that clearly separates from the cuff.)

However, it's not my business anymore to care of students' or anyone's education, or the level thereof, or the limit of the masses' intellectual level for not to put past to.

I apologize for my input here and regret spending so much time on this which I urgently had needed for my own studying (@Wild Bill - I understand more than ever why you turned to something different.)

[L Verge]

(04-21-2017 01:42 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 09:30 AM)L Verge Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 03:03 AM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  Laurie, I have never meant to attack anyone in person (feedback on the products was asked for) and basically agree on positive enforcement and the importance and necessity to teach from various angles. Yet IMO an advanced university student should be aware of the importance to provide sources/evidence, the more the less room for dialogue, and the responsibility you take over when spreading the truth under the academic seal. I frankly was disappointed of the lack thereof. Mass media is a tool of great benefits, but also great destructive potential, hence my request for responsibility.
So far and without, the "various angles" respectively what the reader gets IMO isn't "the truth" but one "blind man's description" of it (of an elephant).

I think what we all are missing here is that we are only seeing what Dani posted on social media sites -- not her more scholastic essay which was turned into her college professor. That is where I suspect you will find numerous citations.

To post them on quick-and-easy social media would turn off the masses. If the intellectuals among the masses want to pick up on her thoughts and then do research on their own, she has done her job well.

I personally doubt this way of presentation things attracts intellectuals in the search of enlightenment. Maybe I am too old-school to imagine. As for the others - how can they know this site is trustworthy and others that look the same and promise another truth aren't? And would they search for more or stick with the one truth they happened to came across? (My understanding of "newly created genre" was the intention to be the wheat that clearly separates from the cuff.)

However, it's not my business anymore to care of students' or anyone's education, or the level thereof, or the limit of the masses' intellectual level for not to put past to.

I apologize for my input here and regret spending so much time on this which I urgently had needed for my own studying (@Wild Bill - I understand more than ever why you turned to something different.)

I'm sorry if my posts have irritated you and others, Eva. I can only say that I have a 16-year-old grandson who is glued to his computer and social media. He is a straight-A student (throughout the years) and was recently inducted into the National Honor Society - and he's not a nerd.

I happen to know first-hand that intelligent students (no matter the age) will take their cues from social media - or society in general - and delve deeper into subjects that interest and matter to them. I have had some very interesting conversations/arguments with him on a variety of topics. Never underestimate a person's desire to learn. The spark is there, you just have to fan the flame.

That said, I'm done too...

[Eva Elisabeth]

(04-21-2017 02:41 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have a 16-year-old grandson who is...a straight-A student (throughout the years) and was recently inducted into the National Honor Society - and he's not a nerd.

Congrats and kudos!!! (Like grandma, like grandson, or: he's a chip off the old block, no?)

[L Verge]

(04-21-2017 04:52 PM)Eva Elisabeth Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:41 PM)L Verge Wrote:  I have a 16-year-old grandson who is...a straight-A student (throughout the years) and was recently inducted into the National Honor Society - and he's not a nerd.

Congrats and kudos!!! (Like grandma, like grandson, or: he's a chip off the old block, no?)

Thanks, Eva. The poor kid didn't get a chance to goof off in school. This grandma was a teacher, the other grandma was a teacher's aide, and the step-grandma was an elementary school principal.

His grandfather on this side was a high school vice principal, and the other "crazy grandpa" actually lives like a pirate on a pirate ship, is the only registered privateer in the U.S. with his papers signed by Reagan, has changed his name to Horatio Sinbad - but more importantly used to be in the Living Classroom program, teaching children about history and sailing.

And finally, Aaron's mother (my daughter) has multiple degrees and has been a mentoring teacher in our county for about 15 years. That means that she is teaching teachers how to teach when they encounter difficulties. With all those genes (and relatives ready to pounce), Aaron learned early to do well scholastically.

[RJNorton]

IMO, Lincoln hated slavery but was not an abolitionist. Here is a quote from his Peoria Speech, October 16, 1854:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong. Stand WITH the abolitionist in restoring the Missouri Compromise; and stand AGAINST him when he attempts to repeal the fugitive slave law. In the latter case you stand with the southern disunionist. What of that? You are still right. In both cases you are right. In both cases you oppose the dangerous extremes. In both you stand on middle ground and hold the ship level and steady. In both you are national and nothing less than national. This is good old Whig ground. To desert such ground, because of any company, is to be less than a Whig---less than a man---less than an American."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Wild Bill]

I agree with your analysis of Lincoln's stand on slavery, Roger

[L Verge]

I do too, and this is why I always call Lincoln a pragmatist and skillful politician - he knew when to sway with the wind and then to stand firm when the winds of war turned his stance on Unionism into one of emancipation (weak as the EP may have been at first).

[Eva Elisabeth]

Couldn't agree more.